The Learning People think dyslexia is a gift, I think they are idiots.
Posted by gimpy on October 4, 2007
The other day I indulged in a foul mouthed rant against those who patronise and profess to cure those with specific learning disabilities. This morning badchemist pointed me to a heartbreaking story in The Express. Heartbreaking because it turned me into a bloodshot, bug-eyed, bad-tempered bastard with the blood pressure of a Glaswegian taxi driver. Apparently the son of actress Louise Jameson, best known for playing Bergerac’s bird, has had his dyslexia corrected by playing with plasticine thanks to The Learning People and the Davis Method. Now plasticine is a wonderful thing and I’ve spent many a happy hour making worms and giant knobs but I’ve completely missed its ability to fundamentally alter the properties of the brain and cure disability. So how does it work?
Apparently, “All dyslexics are primarily picture thinkers and tend to develop strong imaginations and spatial reasoning. Their natural ‘3-D’ thinking ability enables them to excel in many walks of life but can also result in difficulties and distortions when working with non-pictorial ‘2-D’ symbols such as written words or numbers.”.
Is this true?
According to this paper (paywalled), when it comes to reasoning strategies, there is some evidence that “whilst most individuals without dyslexia use a verbal strategy, reasoners with dyslexia do tend to adopt a spatial approach, though their performance is impaired with visually concrete materials. However, when reasoning with more abstract content, they perform comparably with non-dyslexic controls.”. So the difference is dependent on context and, while dyslexics tend to use spatial reasoning the paper does not suggest that all dyslexics are primarily picture thinkers, what ever that means.
So there is some basis in fact for the above statement but it shouldn’t be as strongly worded as it is.
So how do The Learning People cure dyslexia? Well it’s pretty tough to find out any information on the David Methods on their website without having to contact them for a free consultation. You’d think with such a revolutionary treatment some details of the methods would be published on the website.
In my search for more information I was forced to go to the website of the definitely not a charity and definitely a profit making organisation, Davis Dyslexia Association, who have registered dyslexia.org and dyslexia.com, a stunning piece of chutzpah considering all the legitimate charities who work with and for dyslexic individuals. Interestingly the Davis website looks like it hails from the internet circa 1997 and displays a stunning lack of picture thinking, strong imagination and spatial reasoning. Although to be fair, they do acknowledge that Dyslexia cannot be cured.
Anyway, the Davis Methods work by teaching “dyslexic students how to recognize and control the mental state that leads to distorted and confused perceptions of letters, words and numerals.”. How do they teach students this Jedi mind trick?
I don’t know because you have to buy a book called The Gift of Dyslexia to find out.
Again you’ve got to admire the cheek. They have this wonderful cure, but rather than share their gift with the world they make you pay for it. Unlike those charities who don’t own the dyslexia domain names and have ample resources for free.
So ignoring their evil money grabbing capitalist methods for a moment, does the Davis Method work?
The website has a handy list of testimonials proving its effectiveness. But rather than anecdote lets have some proper trials. There are two presented on the website.
The first, the Engelbrecht Controlled Study, was based on a subject size of twenty and used questionnaires, the author has it on her website (in lavender). It is a Masters thesis that has not contributed to any published research so is dubious at best, the sample size is tiny and frankly I can’t be bothered reading more than the abstract which merely states it may have short term positive effects. Not exactly a ringing endorsement of a lucrative, worldwide method.
The second, The Effect of the Davis Learning Strategies on First Grade Word Recognition and Subsequent Special Education Referrals, published in Reading Improvement, a journal not listed on PubMed. This research, paid for by Davis Dyslexia, uses a sample size of 86 and suggests it does work.
Two studies, one of them a Masters thesis and the other paid for and carried out by Davis Dyslexia, seem the sole evidence for the effectiveness of the programme if you discount anecdotes. There is nothing on PubMed.
It is scandalous that The Learning People and Davis Dyslexia are prepared to charge money for an unproven technique based on the exaggeration of the slight differences in spatial thinking between dyslexics and controls.
While I have every sympathy with those who have dyslexia and other specific learning disabilities I don’t think it is helpful to turn to unproven techniques with no evidence of efficacy. It wouldn’t hurt journalists to ask if there was proof that techniques like the Davis method work and actresses shouldn’t put their pouts on the websites of profit making companies using such techniques.
References
1: Bacon AM, Handley SJ, McDonald EL. Reasoning and dyslexia: a spatial strategy may impede reasoning with visually rich information. Br J Psychol. 2007 Feb;98(Pt 1):79-92.
SciencePunk said
This has seom serious implications. Will playing with a “2D medium” such as fuzzy felt render my child dyslexic?
Tania said
Interesting points…drugs that cure diseases, are they free? Are the studies that prove that they are effective, free? Are the techniques that they develop free? Is their intellectual knowledge free? Maybe spending $10.00 on the book isn’t so bad.
gimpy said
Tania, a $10 book may not be so bad but £1500 for a course of treatment is. Especially if there is no real evidence that the treatment works.
Abigail Marshall said
Someone pointed out your article to me, and I think there are some points to clarify, so I hope you don’t mind if I try to do so. Because you have posted a rather long critique, this will be a somewhat long post.
My name is Abigail Marshall. I am the author of a book about dyslexia and I also work for the Davis Dyslexia Association to run their web sites in the US. I also am the parent of a dyslexic kid. In 1994 when my son was 11 years old and couldn’t read, I bought Ron Davis’ book and we tried out the methods at home. It worked for us. My son started reading much more easily right away. Now my son is a university student getting straight A’s and an avid reader. So that’s my story of how I came to Davis.
I want to clear up some points you raised in your blog.
First of all, here’s a simple factual error — one that you can check with any whois utility:
Davis Dyslexia Association International (DDAI) has indeed registered the domain dyslexia.com, but not (as you say) dyslexia.org. Dyslexia.org is owned by a company called “Reading from Scratch” We have nothing whatsoever to do with them.
Also, just to be clear, DDAI does not take any fees from dyslexic clients for services; rather, DDAI is in the business of conducting workshops for teachers and other adults to teach them how to use Davis methods, and also we sell books, kits, videos, etc.
We also license people who have successfully completed our year-long training program to allow them to use the “Davis” trademarks in connection with their work. Those people may in turn charge fees for their services, or they can choose to work for a school or charitable organization.
Part of our training program requires each prospective Facilitator to work successfully with multiple clients and submit detailed case reports. So we actually agree with you about the need to prove a technique works before charging money for it, and we make every Facilitator prove themselves with at least 4 clients before licensing them. When Ron Davis published his book in 1994, he and his associates had worked with about 1,000 clients since 1981.
I realize that’s not the same as having some independent researchers come in and do controlled studies, but I don’t think it’s immoral for us to market a service that we ourselves have tested again and again — especially if we stand behind it. And we do.
I say all this because I think your concern about people being charged money for phony promises of a “cure” for dyslexia is a legitimate one – but that is not what we are doing. As you noted after visiting our web site, we don’t claim to “cure” dyslexia. We provide an intensive one-week educational program with support training and limited followup services. Usually by the end of the week, the client knows if it is working or not.
Also our program has been checked out in the UK by an agency of the Department for Education and Skills, which is now called the Department for Children, Schools and Families. They arranged for some clients to work with Davis Facilitator and observed the programmes and conducted some interviews, and they included these case studies in a publication called “A Framework for Understanding Dyslexia”. I think all British parent would be well advised to read that publication before choosing any method for their child.
You questioned what could be done with plasticine to “fundamentally alter the properties of the brain and cure disability”. We don’t claim to change brains; we use clay modeling to help students master letters, words, and concepts. For example, if a student wanted to master the word “from”, she would first look the word up in dictionary. She would model both the meaning of the word and its letters in clay. She would say the word and its meaning aloud; she would practice making up sentences using the word; she would learn to spell the word backwards and forwards. Our program has the students model more than 200 small words like this, which happen to comprise about 80% of the words usually seen in print. We also have some exercises to go along with reading to improve reading speed and comprehension.
I think the point where we diverge is that you seem to see dyslexia as a medical problem that would need to be cured before a child can read. We see it as an educational problem, and we think that dyslexic children and adults can learn to read and write well, but need a method tailored to their unique learning style. So we have no interest at all in changing the brain; we figure its easier to change the teaching method to fit the brain than the other way around.
In that regard, I noticed you complained that you couldn’t find the Reading Improvement journal in PubMed — well, PubMed is a database of medical journals. You would have to find Reading Improvement in a database of educational journals. (It is indexed online in the WilsonWeb Journal by the way; you can use their index for free but they charge money to access the journal content.).
On the other hand, there is a way that you can find out how Davis Orientation Counseling works for free. (That stuff you referred to as a “Jedi mind trick”, which actually is a kind of a cool way of describing it — I’ll bet my son would have loved that!) Just check the book out from your local public library. Then, if you want, you can try it out on your own.
jonhw said
Also our program has been checked out in the UK by an agency of the Department for Education and Skills, which is now called the Department for Children, Schools and Families. They arranged for some clients to work with Davis Facilitator and observed the programmes and conducted some interviews, and they included these case studies in a publication called “A Framework for Understanding Dyslexia”. I think all British parent would be well advised to read that publication before choosing any method for their child.
Annoyingly, the page showing the case study on the Davis approach seems to be broken. That said, there is a page on the Davis Counselling approach.
It’s worth noting, though, that the DFES makes clear that “Inclusion in the list below does not imply recommendation. All approaches found to be in use have been included, on the grounds that you may need the information.” The report does seem like it would be a good place for parents to start when researching treatments for their children. However, as made clear in the report, it’s certainly not sufficient (e.g. the report gives much too positive an impression of brain gym). A good place for parents to start their research, and a bad place to end it, maybe?
gimpy’s blog said
[...] The Learning People think dysl…me_myself on One from the vaults – Peter Fi…Abigail Marshall on The Learning People think dysl…gimpy on The Learning People think dysl… « Homeopathic gynaecologist turns to internet [...]
Abigail Marshall said
John, here are the links to the Davis case studies:
Davis counselling approach — case study
Observed Session 1 (Ashley)
O bserved Session 2 (Tracy)
Interviews with teachers and learners
I agree with you – DFES did not make an endorsement — but it did make observations and a report, including transcripts of interviews, from which readers can draw their own conclusions. It is still anecdotal information, but with somewhat more reliability than a testimonial printed in an advertisement, simply because there is an objective source for the report, with no vested financial interest in outcome.
gimpyhater said
gimpy get a life. your a twat
gimpy said
Hi Gimpyhater, do you have anything constructive to say?
SciencePunk said
what?! I had to write a blog for MONTHS before I got a hater. no fair.
haroldb10 said
This blog has it all wrong. These homeopaths and societies that promote them are the good guys. The pharmaceutical companies and the medical practitioners and others like yourselves here that promote either directly or by omission, many of the deadly drugs and procedures as “good science” are the bad guys. Why? Just ask the thousands of people that have died or suffered at their hands.
After many die or are seriously maimed by a particular drug you go “oops”. Then the apologists and promoters we see here argue that it is still “good science.” The current medical science that you are all tooting as “reasonable” and “good science” irregardless of its harm is left out of all of this. Look at the documented iatrogenic injuries per year across the world especially in England and spend some time talking about that.
Why don’t you square off with those causing real harm instead of attempting to bully the homeopaths who do not maim thousands. Its a shame that you put so much energy into this when the real corporate science scam is not even touched.
nash said
Haroldb10
And of course the Hoes and the companies that produce the magic water and sugar pills for them are not interested in making profits.
Don’t you think drug companies would love Homeopathic potions. No research, no regulations, next to nothing in ingredient costs (1 pint of Mother Tincture will last for years).
Chris said
So as you say – all you need to do is buy the book. Is 10 quid too much – less than 3 pints in London. Don’t knock something that you haven’t tried.
Davis is correct. Orientation does work (must be a 3D picture thinker). There is no cure, but coping skills is what it’s all about until the Ed system and kids are matched. We need to know from an early age is the child a picture thinker or not. If so – then use stategies that are tailored for picture thinkers. Davis can work and hopefully my son will get useful employment where he can utilise his Talent / Gift. Really it’s all about achieving potential, and getting rid of the blocks that prevent this.
louise said
i fink it is cool wat u r doing good luck!!!!!!
Dore - the vultures start to circle « gimpy’s blog said
[...] from any other business. It has been brought to my attention that The Learning People, subject of one of my very first blog posts, have started wooing former clients of Dore and spamming blogs covering the Dore collapse. While [...]
Donna Juliani said
No Dyslexia can not be cured. It has to be embraced by the individual to be effectively dealt with. Just like any problem if met with resistance then there is more pain and suffering. Davis methods of instruction are tools that work with certain people. The program is not generic, no education should be generic and that is what we have in the public schools=generic everyone is a square peg mentality. If some method will help or works for a while with a child I say use it. When you are done with that find some other way to help the dyslexic get thru school without being damaged psycholgically for not fitting in. Stop bad mouthing people who are trying to find another way. Peace out
Janine said
It so easy for an ignorant one dimensional thinker to assume there must be something wrong with someone who does not learn they like the majority; dyslexic’s in fact have greater intellectual capabilities than most of the general population. There is nothing wrong with the way a dyslexic’s brain works we just learn differently. I am sorry if you are too cheap to by a twenty dollar book. The book that the Davis Dyslexia Foundation has created also offers free support for those who are genuinely interested in learning the truth about dyslexia. The techinuques used to help dyslexics are actually used widely throughout Europe and Australia; however, in North America there is an entire money making industry devoted to telling children they are deficient (which costs thousands more that the book). I wish that it was as simple exposing people to the truth about dyslexia and all would be right with education; but people have devoted their entire careers to diagnosing and treating “learning disabilities”. It is unlikely that these “educators” could accept the fact that their careers have caused more harm than good. There is also the medical industry who have spent millions on researching and developing drugs that force children to be stripped of their personalities and become walking zombies. I now for a fact that the techniques work I spent the first twenty years of my life listening to people like you and reading at a third grade level; however, once I learned orientation I could read at a university level in just six months. If your are going to have such a strong opinion at least have the information to support it. I am assuming that you have some kind of post secondary education so you should know better. Ignorant articles like yours is exactly what perpetuates the confusion about dyslexia.
Cyndi Coleman said
Well Done! Your writting is eloquent and masterful. It is evident that you have a clear understanding of the type of people who benifit from the program. There are hundreds if not thousands, who have clearly had success with the Davis program. My son completed the program 4 years ago. He WAS one of the most frustrated children I had ever seen PRIOR to the program. I had previously spent thousands$$$$$$ on Drs., tests, medicines, treatments, tutors, ieps, modifications, etc., etc., etc., with no improvements what so ever. The teachers and Drs. response to me was…”just put him on medicine and he’ll get by” He’ll get by,????? What the heck is up with that? I didn’t want my child to “GET BY”. He needed an education. He needed to know that there wasn’t something wrong with him. He needed to know he was gifted, and smart, so smart, in fact that most of the time he was and is smarter than the teacher. By the second day of the program my son was oriented and no longer exhibited any of the symptoms of what everyone was calling ADD. He didn’t have ADD which is why there was never any improvements. He was no longer trying to shake off the effects of the massive confusion he was experiencing when ever he ecnountered a symbol that created confusion. His self esteme SOARED! He jumped from a 2nd grade reading level to reading material @9th grade level. He changed 100%. He, for the first time in his young life, knew what was happening when he encountered confusion and knew HOW to stop it. He gained self confidence in a few short days that most people never achieve in a lifetime! Those 5 days changed his life and our families’ life forever. The cost of the program was worth EVERY PENNY. AND we don’t have to keep going and spending more $$$$$. It is done! DONE for life. He is proud of his Dyslexia. He has no shame associated with what the educational field calls a learning disability. He knows that he is exceptional and it is the others who so easiliy slide into the square hole that are missing out. What most people study page after page, hour after hour, to try and figure out, he can LOOK at and get the whole picture in a matter of minutes. Now THATS A GIFT!
gimpy said
Janine, I think you have misinterpreted my arguments. I am not arguing that dyslexic individuals have greater or lesser intellectual capabilities than the general population, I am not suggesting they cannot achieve high levels of education attainment but I am suggesting that programmes like Davis are based on no evidence and have not been demonstrated to be of value.
If you want to defend Davis then you need to demonstrate that their methods are based on sound scientific evidence and that they have been proven to be effective in controlled trials. Creating fantasies of medical conspiracies and hurling personal insults does little to support your position.
Janine said
That’s the whole point of being dyslexic is that we have talents and mental abilities that cannot be understood by standardized testing. If you would just buy the damn book maybe you could get it. It is not a conspirarcy theory that companies have a vested financial interest in learning disabilities; it is a money making business and people will pay anything to help their children. You are the one who is hurling insults because you cannot understand the methods used by the Davis Dyslexia Association. Finding a way to manage dyslexia is like finding the cure for cancer, you do not care if it has scientific proof; you only care if it works and I am telling you it works. Read the Damn book and conduct your own study I do not care; but, do not try to destroy the validity of something you do not understand.
gimpy said
Janine, the only companies with a vested financial interest in dyslexia are those selling books and touting cures with a strong whiff of quackery. The place for studying dyslexia is in the pages of academic journals where you can be sure the evidence has been peer-reviewed and meets a certain standard. Popular works unappraised by experts are of limited, if any, value. Likewise anecdotes.
PS What talents and mental abilities do dyslexic individuals have that cannot be understood? Are we in Scanners territory here?
Catherine said
Hi Janine,
I have a son with dyslexia and you mentioned your reading level greatly improved when you learned “orientation”. Is that taught in the Davis method or someplace else?
Thanks,
gimpy said
Catherine, I would advise you to seek the advice of an Education Psychologist. If, for whatever reason, you cannot then I would only advise you to help your child with their schoolwork, maybe buy them a computer and encourage them to use that and certainly do not worry that dyslexia will hold your child back. With the right support that is unlikely to happen. You should also be aware that reading levels improve over time in all individuals, dyslexic or not, without any intervention.
bunny_foofoo said
I myself am not dyslexic. But I am dating a man who is and his two children are. I read “The Gift of Dyslexia” and decided to incorporate it into their tutoring. The children are 9 (boy) and 11 (girl). The book (which I checked out from my local library) has a section in the back that shows the exercises that the facilitators use.
For the boy I recommended he do the course with a hands on facilitator (he was 8 at the time). And yes, it was expensive. But for him, he needed to be immersed in this technique for a week straight (time i couldnt give). He had extreme physical effects from the dyslexia: hyeperactive behavior, motion sickness to the point of throwing up. After the course he was almost completely aware of when his dyslexic problem solving methods affected his reading (when he would get dizzy and a stomach ache during reading for example). And he had an array of method to choose from to best resolve the problem. He could “secure his point” if he felt that was the problem (a mental concentration technique). He could let his “point loose” for a short period (if he has been holding his concentration too long). If he was completely off track while reading he could do physical exercisies to help him regain his balance (because when dyslexia is in full swing it throws off the inner ear). These exercises at first took a while to get through homework. But through repeated usage he became faster and faster and then he learned to handle these issues in fractions of a second.
You see, these exercises of playing with clay and throwing balls…all of those are baby-stepping the brain through the process of ways to handle the dyslexia. It offers different options for different variations that could occur.
The girl (11) was much more self aware and I did not feel she needed the full week emmersing with a facilitator. I read her “The Gift of Dyslexia” and she got it. meaning She understood how the exercises were supposed to be used to help her with dyslexia. She understood the end goal of teh exercises and how her brain worked. When this happened, not only did she start to do better in reading and math…but she began to excel even further in things she was already good at music, sewing, drawing, stroytelling. She understood why her thought process made her good at those areas and used it to better herself in those already excelled areas.
These methods are like phonics for visual and audio learners. You obviously dont sound EVERY word out now when you read. You brain has been taught the method and now can do the process in fractions of a second. This Ron Davis method is like the phonics method for tactile learners (which dyslexics are most frequently according to other tutors in my area). Its just a different method to process information. Even non-dyslexic tactile learners would benefit from it.
You dont have to use a trained facilitator. There are exercises in the back of the book, which is what I use. Also, I know there is an audio book version avaliable (although this is almost impossible to find in libraries). But the faciliator is great for younger children and ones who really experience severe swings due to the dyslexia (extreme hyperactivity or lathargic actiity and also extreme motion sickness). The week long class really helps to make the person aware of their mind before it reaches the extreme physical side effects that some dyslexic experience.
I have began working as a tutor for other dyslexic students. I have never been certified and explain that to parents. I tell them if I think a child would benefit from being sent to a facilitator for a week, but I get no bonuses for any referrals. I charge $25 an hour for tutoring, but have taken on charity cases at no charge.
My PERSONAL UNPROEN THEORY:
I personally think that the school system (I live in FL) should teach more techniques such as these to help all tactile learners (not just dyslexics). These tactile learners are our engineers, mechanics, architects and other “hands-on” professionals of the future. They account for 20% of the student population. Not only that, ,but I believe they should increase teh audio techniques used for the audio learners in school as well. I fully believe if students were tested to see if they were visual, audio or tactile learners…then placed in classes targeting those elarning techniques, the students would do much better. Instead the schools tend to teach the same technique (which benefits visual learners the most) to all students (visual, audio and tactile).
gimpy said
Bunny_foofoo, the emphasis on this site is for evidence based practices in health. Reading from a book and devising cute personal theories is very much frowned upon as are those of superficial expertise pontificating grandly with assumed authority. There is ample evidence that dyslexic children do benefit from intensive tuition – why isn’t enough for you just to tutor the child without donning the garb of false expertise and authority?
Now why I am being visited by there avid supporters of Davis Dyslexia?
Susan said
The latest issue of The Green Parent magazine has a couple of very dodgy articles about teaching reading.
‘Recipe for Reading’, where Dawn Francis-Pester ‘explores how to instill a passion for reading in our children’. Dawn’s article is based on her own children’s use of the discovery reading method, though she doesn’t call it that. She trots out the usual prejudices against the explicit, structured teaching of reading using phonics that I encountered, in strength, when involved with the home education community more than 15 years ago. Sadly, for that significant minority of home educated children who will NOT discover for themselves how to learn to read when autonomous methods are used, nothing appears to have changed.
Quote:
‘Like earlier milestones of walking and talking, I decided early in our homeschooling path to let reading and writing develop at their own pace… rejected reading schemes, a syllabus, phonics, literacy hour or any kind of adult led structure, in favour of an autonomous style’
‘(H)e seemed to start by learning certain favourite stories off by heart, which meant he could read the words in those stories.. Gradually, equipped with a fairly large repertoire, he has started to draw his own conclusions about the sounds of certain combinations of letters. I hesitate to use the word ‘phonics’ as I regard phonics as an adult-led teaching system rather than a child-led form of discovery’
The second article that drew my attention was a ‘Holistic approach to dyslexia…A gift going to waste: Richard Whitehead applies green principles to learning for dyslexic pupils’.
Richard is director of The Learning People, a business which is based on the beliefs of Ronald Davis, author of ‘The Gift of Dyslexia’ http://www.thelearningpeople.co.uk/ Knowing this, I was not surprised at the content.
‘Gems’ from this article include the following:
Quote:
‘Concentration gets in the way of learning’
‘Dyslexia is not a lifelong disability, but a form of intelligence that deserves to be treated with dignity and respect’
‘Invariably, learning problems are about a mismatch between a person’s thinking style and the way that information has been presented’
http://dyslexia.mtsu.edu/modules/articles/displayarticle.jsp?id=71 ‘The Gift of Dyslexia’ by Ronald Davis (a critique)
I recommend you leave this magazine on the shelf. http://www.thegreenparent.co.uk/
gimpy said
Thanks Susan, I always find it slightly depressing that many people who care about green issues are particularly susceptible to unscientific bullshit and prone to being taken advantage of by those who use ‘green’ buzzwords.
Susan said
When you’ve got time, Gimpy, explore thse:
http://www.vitalia-health.co.uk/products/seagreensfaq.htm#09
http://weavingstar.com/#get-life-tools/index.php
http://www.100percentnature.co.uk/proddetail.php?prod=HBBC0130&cat=38
http://www.indigoessences.com/
All advertise in The Green Parent magazine.
Stevie said
I’ve read the stuff on that first link. The claims that it can fix any ailment you can think of (apart from AIDS) are absurd. There is no conclusive proof to back any of this up. Sorry, but i’m not interested in “solid anecdotal evidence” (i nearly pissed myself when i read that). It says it cures all these things but then later states it wants to get funding to help ‘prove’ its claims.
Then it claims that it contains virtually all the Amino acids (make up proteins) Only 20 Amino acids exist and Anything with protein will contain most of these 20 anyway!
There is a link on that page ‘information for therapists’ link jam packed with even more whoppers. It goes on about how it detoxifies your body. Your liver does that for you anyway. It says that polysaccharides (make up sugars) heal the intestines. No they fucking don’t! (unless they are magic sugars of course)
Then there is a big section on how it is packed with micronutrients. This is the only relevant fact. But other green foods supply the same nutrients and minerals at a fraction of the cost.
The most insidious claim is that it aids Autistic spectrum disorders.(giving false hope like that is pretty vile) Buried in there is some implication that vaccines cause autism (again, unproved) It says that seagreen helps autistics by binding heavy metals. How? In what way does it help? i have a molecular biology degree and i can’t make head nor tail of this garbage. And as for the references, most of them aren’t even relevant to the argument . However, the anticancer argument seems plausible along with a few of the claims that it aids digestion, but other vegetables and other seaweeds are available and cheaper too.
I urge anyone with half a brain not to be fooled by these bullshitters.
rachael said
Hi there,
my child has dyslexia,
I was very interested to hear what bunny said due to the fact that she discussed sensory issues. Occupational therapy deals specifically with what bunny was saying about sensory learning. Visual, auditory and tactile. Occupational therapists world wide agree with you Bunny, as do I who have a medical background. I believe children should be taught through their senses. Makes sense! isnt it the way we learn about the rest of our world. Im about to start home schooling and am going to have a good look into the Davis method. Its well known that children with these difficulties have had some form of ear,nose or throat problem during important parts of their developemental stages. My son has a severly deviated nasal septum, my ex-partner who has dyslexia has a family history of nasal polyps. Meaning small nasal passages. I just believe the nerve connections wern’t made at the right time, so as with anything in our body, our bodies try to balance. We find another nerve pathway. Make different connections. Maybe in other circumstances we might call this diversity (individualism). We all know that the nerves connect to the brain. And how much do we know about that. I think theres not enough listening and to much discrediting due to the influence of market forces. So maybe we all need to share rather than discredit and see the patterns, so we can progress rather than digress. Theres many different reasons for the same symptoms. Just because the research hasnt been done, doesnt mean its not going to happen. Theres a thing called(subjective) phenomenological research. Thankyou all for your imput everyone. Im interested in hearing that my child might learn to control his brain through the techniques your talking about. After 5pages of reading he has trouble concentrating. Although hes above his reading age. Spelling and handwriting are a problem, firstly visual discrimination is really difficult, he can’t remember those little ole words,cant access his memory and the later due to challenges as his fine motor skill havent developed. Its invaluable to stressed out parents. I think theres no quick fix as we are all diverse with similarities within the specific learning disorder area. But any things worth a go. I think this is where we will make the next steps with learning about our brain because its unseen. Some marvelous dislexic who works in 3D just may map it out for us yet.
I hope I havent upset you to much Gimpy.
My intentions are good and im glad of your site. Smiley face.
Bill said
I read the book, Davis’ approach seems to have merit. My child is having some learning problems which largely fit the descriptions offered in the book.
It’s my money, I’m going to try their program. Next question.
B
Karla said
Bill,
Did you try the David program?
If so, what did you think?
Curious Mom
Deb said
A very expensive neuropsychologist, highly recommended, diagnosed my frustrated daughter with dyslexia at age 18. The neuropsychologist referred my daughter, then a high school grad who too afraid of failure to go to college, to a Davis method facilitator in Chicago. It was great. Now, my daughter has tools that she uses daily in her college work. Her spelling is still a problem but she has courage and tools to do her school work. Her memory has improved. She had to work on the Davis exercises for 18 months after the training. When she enounters problems, she still uses the Davis methods. She has completed 3 semesters at a university with a B average, majoring in environmental science.
After many years of frustration, my daughter was not willing to work with me on the program, so we used money we saved up for college to pay for the training. It was an investment in our daughter’s education and future. If she had been younger when diagnosed, perhaps I could have bought the book or gotten it from the library and done the method with my daughter. After my daughter was properly diagnosed (she was misdiagnosed at age 8, 10 and 16 as “normal, with her own learning style”) I informally searched the internet for information on the Davis method, and the zillion other methods that say each method will fix dyslexia. The Davis method among the very few (if any-I don’t recall any others like this)that you could do at home, with a library book Gift of Dyslexia, and all the methods explained clearly. I talked to 10 other parents whose children worked with the Chicago Davis facilitator. I was quite anxious not to take my daughter down a wrong path again.
By the way, when she was diagnosed with dyslexia, she said that she did indeed think in pictures, not in words. She had never revealed this because she had always thought everyone thinks in pictures. It had never occurred to me that she thinks in pictures because I think in words. The father turns out to think in pictures, too, and probably has a milder case of dyslexia.
Regarding research, generally, educational methods are poorly researched. First, research is expensive, and funding sources are reluctant to fund such “soft” research. Then, if one is PHD candidate, which method should be studied? Since most teachers are prepared at a BA level, they have no tools for conducting classroom research even if they had time. It is like researching psychotherapy. There is a lot of research literature on Cognitive Behavioral Therapy’s effectiveness, but very little on psychoanalysis and other methods. I agree that there is a huge need to do research on educational methods rather than having to rely on testimonials. Testimonials are rather scary…If the neuropsychologist had not recommended the Davis method, I would not have chosen it based on the testimonials.
gimpy said
Deb,
It is good that your daugher is doing well but the trouble with the Davis Method is that there is no supporting evidence for it.
There are 6000+ published papers on dyslexia covering a broad range of research questions (there are also nearly 10,000 on psychoanalysis). There is no excuse for Davis not to carry out research, especially as they are profiting from their technique.
Deb said
Good point. In medical research and other areas of science, there are regulations that mandate research, and there is a growing demand for “evidence based” practice. Education, as a discipline, is not regulated and has no such mandates, as far as I know. It is obvious that I am not an educator, but adopting research mandates and regulations that require the demonstration of effectiveness would move the discipline ahead. It is much more complicated to test an educational method (and more expensive)compared to testing a drug, but certainly not impossible.
There is evidence supporting the Davis method, which is the accumulated experience of the Davis facilitators. However, this is very soft, qualitative data and, as far as I know, unpublished.
John Hayes said
I always wonder if Dyslexia is a gift and has value what would it look like graphed .
Y axis value of gift, x axis severity of dyslexia.
If dyslexia is a gift of constant value ( horizontal line ) then give it to me with as little value as possible
if value of gift increases with severity of dyslexia , seems unlikely , then all these success stories of dyslexics should be really really dyslexic. Doesn’t seem to fit the facts.
A bell curve seems to be likely as they represent most human differences which would mean that some moderate dyslexics would indeed have some value from the gift.
I just can’t wrap my mind around any reasonable way dyslexia can be a gift for all dyslexics.
notspock said
I’d never consider dyslexia “a gift”, but have a feeling that its just being different – with different strenths and weaknesses. You get clever dyslexics, and not clever ones too.
I’ve even seen what i’d describe as “undyslexics” – has anyone actually ever looked into whether there is such a thing as the opposite of a dyslexic?
I personally have never been diagnosed as dyslexic, but theres been plenty evidence over the years that I’m that way inclined. I also used to be a teacher – in a secondary school working under conditions that actually increased the ratio of maths or reasoning skills divided by writing skills in its intake.
EM said
I am the parent of a 13 year old dyslexic for whom we have spent thousands and thousands of dollars on psycho-educational testing (by a variety of specialists – psychologists, speech pathologists, Mel Levine’s outfit in NY, etc.) and also have spent even more on a private school with a ‘learning support’ program as well as a summer camp for dyslexics. Virtually everything that has been recommended to us and that we have tried has been based on ‘research based’ ’structured language’ programs – which virtually all come from Orton-Gillingham. None of the research, done by supposedly unbiased scientists, has included research into the Davis Method! Why is this? If the Davis people did their own research, who would believe them? None of the research I have read about (Read ‘Overcoming Dyslexia’ by Sally Shaywitz) is so convincing – why does Shaywitz not even mention the Davis method? There must be some motive to funding research that really only looks at methods that are pretty much all the same (and which all involve torturous drilling for years and years – and in our daughter’s case, hardly any results) but leaves out some methods that might be a bit ‘fringe’ or weird sounding. It all sounds like a lot of bad politics to me.
I have JUST discovered the Davis Method and we are going to try it – either I will work with my daughter myself, or to jump start it we will have her do the program with a Davis facilitator and then continue at home. This is our last chance. The book makes a lot of sense and I think it might be the only thing that will help our daughter.
Maria said
Hi you all! I am a teacher of dyslexic kids and have tried many different approaches to teaching them. It is interesting to read about the Davis method I might try this with them. i have been working with them for a number of years now and have seen little progress.
Someone mentioned how there is not mush research about this method, and I just have to say that besides research being expensive the money making drug companies will not like to have that kind of competition, so they will not endorse this method as scientific, because they do not get their cut!
There is another method of helping dyslexic kids I have found and started to use recently, I can not say yet if it worked for me, as I am not done with the program. You can check it out in the movetolearn.com.au site
John Hayes said
Are you under the impression that dyslexia research is funded by the drug companies? It’s not.
The reason the Davis method is not representative of problems experienced by most dyslexics is because it is based on a personal experience that is fairly rare. The two foundations of dyslexics thinking in pictures and dyslexia being a gift are not particularly any more common in dyslexics than the general population.
Some people have gifts ,some don’t, dyslexics or not. Some people think in pictures, most don’t ,dyslexics are not.
Vespa56 said
I felt like they were selling snake oil.