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Jeremy Sherr does not act alone, but with the support of the homeopathic establishment

Posted by gimpy on January 15, 2009

I, and others, have been doing some digging and complaining about the activities of Mr Sherr, the homeopath carrying out his healing fantasies by human experimentation in Tanzania.   There is an excellent summary of the situation by Martin over at Layscience who also has another post examining Mr Sherr’s recent attempts to edit and censor his blog as well as an examination of the dishonest defence of his actions.  Our investigations have revealed that not only is Jeremy Sherr making false claims of academic support but that he could not have achieved his goals of taking homeopathy to Tanzania without the support of sections of the homeopathic establishment.

Mr Sherr made some very specific claims about academic backing backing for his activities on the Dynamis website to create the impression of credible support:

We have the support of several eminent homeopathic researchers, as well as the Muhumbili University of Health Sciences in Dar Es Salaam, Tanzania and the Department of Integrative Medicine at the University of Maryland, USA.

I have taken the liberty of contacting both Muhumbili University and the University of Maryland about this support.  I have not yet received a response from the University of Maryland but Dr. Moshi of the Institute of Traditional Medicine at Muhimbili University (MUHAS) has told me:

We simply do not have any relationship with these people. This claim is libellous!.

Mr Rwegasira [Mr Sherr's Tanzanian collaborator] is a member of the Traditional and Alternative Health Practitioners Council, but his activities are not in any way whatsoever related to what the Institute of Traditional Medicine at MUHAS does. It is also not our line of research or expertise. Jeremy Sherr is a complete stranger to us; have never met him.

I am reliably informed by a staff member of the Institute that he/she was warned against using the name of the Institute or University. I have contacted our Lawyer for necessary action.

In addition to this Angus Wood has been in contact with the British Homeopathic Association (BHA), the Homeopathic Medical Association (HMA) and the Society of Homeopaths (SoH) to ask if they can do anything about the actions of Sherr.  None of these organisations claimed to be able to do anything despite Mr Sherr being a Fellow of both the BHA and the SoH.  After this non-response Angus Wood has contacted Simon Wilkinson-Blake, the listed contact for the Homeopathic Action Trust (HAT) as well as current chief executive of the British Deaf Association, a UK based charitable organisation funding Mr Sherr.  HAT claim they will bring this issue up at a meeting of trustees in February.  However, HAT, and presumably the trustees, are fully aware of and clearly complicit in the actions of Mr Sherr, their 2007 accounts reveal funding for the project:

An expanded group of investigators are now taking the planned and designed proposal undertaken at  the Nelson Mandela Medical Center in Durban, forward to its next stage, prior to setting up an  international AIDS research trial. This is now based in Tanzania, with the support of the Tanzanian government.

Not only that but their guidelines for making an application for funding clearly state that:

The project must be fully monitored and evaluated and results should be made available to HAT

Therefore Mr Sherr’s project must have been approved by the board of HAT.  The meeting of trustees will hopefully call an end to this terrible misjudgement, but even if it does HAT must take some responsibility for the consequences of their support.  HAT are not operating on the eccentric edges of homeopathy, they represent its establishment with trustees being composed of several notable homeopaths including;

Their support for these egregious trials is not restricted to those proposed by Mr Sherr, their accounts also reveal that they are funding work by Peter Chappell, the man who claims to have invented a musical cure for AIDS and is himself carying out extraordinary experiments in the developing world through his charity, the Amma Resonance Foundation.

Peter Chappell Projects
A pre-pilot study in Bangui, the capital of the Central African Republic has taken place, and an HIV/AIDS project including a dispensary has been set up in Kenya.

Now in a curious coincidence two of Mr Sherr’s academic collaborators, Professor Harald Walach along with a Dr Schenider, are supervising the trial design for Mr Chappell, a design that almost certainly breaches the Ethical Code Professor Walach’s employers at the University of Northampton demand their staff uphold.  Professor Walach is also head of the European Branch of the Samueli Institute, an organisation that funds research into alternative therapies.

This sorry episode exposes mainstream homeopathic opinion as seeing poorly educated and terminally ill people in the developing world as suitable subjects for human experimentation that has not been passed before an ethics committee and has not been assessed for plausibility.  Not only that it also proves that one of the most pre-eminent and influential pro-alternative therapy academics in Europe supports and collaborates in this behaviour.

Jeremy Sherr is merely the prick that has burst the homeopathic boil and exposed the festering pus of ignorance and incompetence that defines the alternative sector.  This movement is rotten from the heart of its establishment to the practitioners operating on the margins.  Sherr, a respected teacher, is representative of homeopathy, not an individual acting on his own initiative.  It is time these people were called to account and stripped of their influence.

[BPSDB]

Further Links

In addition to the layscience links above (and replicated here and here), there are a number of other blogs reporting and commenting on this story.  Rob Hinkley of semiskimmed.net has archived the original versions of Jeremey Sherr’s blog, Robin has a video of the Sherr’s describing their plans (which I’ve also saved to my youtube channel in case it vanishes) and asks ‘does this count as murder?’.  My immediate thoughts on this are no, I view it as akin to manslaughter through negligence – but more on this at the weekend.  JQH has some nice summaries and analysis in two posts, here and here.  And jdc325 has similar summaries but with an additional interesting link to what some homeopath bloggers think of this.

My apologies if I have missed anyone out and special thanks should go to the non-bloggers who have also been proactive in investigating this and drawing it to the attention of those outside the small blogging community.

201 Responses to “Jeremy Sherr does not act alone, but with the support of the homeopathic establishment”

  1. Way to go on the research front, that’s some nice work. I lobve that last paragraph as well, it should be mailed to every homeopathy practitioner in the country!

  2. jdc325 said

    Nice digging Gimpy. I’d agree with Cannonball Jones on that last para too (I think you’ve hit the nail on the head with your remarks about ignorance and incompetence). I look forward to reading more on this.

  3. “the man who claims to have invented a musical cure for AIDS” (my emphasis)

    I assumed I must have read that wrongly or that it was a typo for ‘medical cure’…until I looked at the website.

    Apparently, this guy has created “a remedy for AIDS based on resonance to the disease totality gathered from my first 70 cases, by putting the disease resonance in a bottle.”

    Un-fucking-believable. Mind you, he’s a homoeopath, so nothing should surprise me.

    Does it work? Not half! He claims: “The main question important to the AIDS patients in Africa is… does it work? The thousands of them who recover with such certainty that never did I record a failure give the answer.”

    He should get the next Noble prize for medicine, physics, chemistry…and literature – for such great fiction!

  4. dt said

    Jeremy Sherr is merely the prick that has burst the homeopathic boil and exposed the festering pus of ignorance and incompetence that defines the alternative sector.

    Way to go, Gimpy.

  5. JQH said

    I share your fury at the activities of these people – it is great that you are exposing them to public scrutiny.

  6. Alan said

    You’d have thought that we’d have learned a bit from previous unethical trials and the awful histories of Tuskegee etc. And these punks have the temerity to go on about the evils of Big Pharma and “The Constant Gardener” etc (I am aware the Big Pharma has done more than its share of nasty stuff too, but the hypocrisy still stands).
    The same ethical guidelines should apply to all “medical” interventions, surely? Are there no international treaties for these sort of things?

  7. Good work Gimpy.

  8. Sceric said

    great job, exposing these people..and the last paragraph was so to the point that I just forwarded them to a couple of people (incl. the link to the blog)…one should imagine that their obviously highly diluted moral standards and knowledge should make them more ethic and intelligent, but they probably were not shaken often enough…

  9. [...] more on his statements at variance with relity, see Gimpy’s latest post. Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)An Admission About Homeopathycbs2chicago.com – [...]

  10. Teek said

    as ever, a brilliant post – there is no hiding place on t’internet, Sherr, Chappell and the whole gamut of homeo-woos will be tracked down and exposed for the dangerous and irresponsible people they are.

    As for the last para of this post – can someone get Dr Aust to write a songe based on that, it’s great…!!

  11. Claire said

    very impressive, Gimpy, well done. Jaw-dropping response from MUHAS!

  12. gusfoo said

    It’s a small world. Professor Harald Walsh’s world view can be seen over at The Quackometer http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2008/12/academic-responds-to-homeopathy.html

  13. Wrysmile said

    Prof Harald Walach he’s the guy who had a run in with Andy at the quackometer a couple of weeks back over his homeopathy challenge, he basically said you can’t test homeopathy like science based medicine.

    http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2008/12/academic-responds-to-homeopathy.html

  14. gimpy said

    Gusfoo/Wrysmile, if you are particularly eagle eyed you will notice that the paper Walach cites in support of his arguments on the Quackomter has a certain J. Sherr as a co-author. As far as I can understand, Sherr carried out the experiments and Walach brought the full weight of his intellect to the interpretation.

  15. [...] hjelper ikke spesielt mye at det påberopes støtte som ved Gimpys nærmere ettersyn viser seg å være litt mer enn usikker: I have taken the liberty of contacting both Muhumbili [...]

  16. [...] episode is the fact that Sherr is supported by the leading homeopathic organisations in the UK. Gimpy’s blog highligts the fact that the British Homeopathic Association (BHA) and Homeopathic Action Trust [...]

  17. Great work as always, gimpy.
    I assume that no prominent homeopaths have denounced Sherr? I’d have a bit more respect for a homeopath who came out and said, what we do is treat coughs and colds, if you’re seriously ill, see a doctor?

  18. Shelley said

    Homeopathy works. It works well and much better than conventional medicine. If it didn’t work, it would not last for more than 200 years and have so many followers and supporters around the world. Numbers do not lie (unlike this blog). If homeopathy were such crap, why does this blog and so many other people, from the medical establishment and pharmaceutical companies, make such an effort to fight against it? If it didn’t work, people would not turn to it and it would fissile out, like many medical theories have over the years.

  19. Yawn. Yeah, yeah we know. It’s all a big conspiracy by Big Pharma, everyone here (including those not connected with anything medical), all doctors, the FDA, Governments (yes, every single last one of them) are in the pay of Big Pharma and they’re all out to make as much profit as possible. And if a lot of people suffer needlessly or even die, well, so what? Not one of us cares about human suffering – not even babies and small children. It’s all in the name of profit, isn’t it? Oh! And the moon is made of cheese.

    How many here have never heard that one before?

    Can I suggest you go look up a good website on argumentation and logical fallacies? I can recommend http://www.unc.edu/depts/wcweb/handouts/argument.html. It’s about writing essays, but it applies just as well to any discussion. A good guide to logical fallacies can be found here: http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/. I can particularly recommend you read the one on the ad populum (appeal to popularity) fallacy. Oh! And look up the meaning of integrity in a dictionary.

  20. Dr. Nancy Malik said

    Homeopathy cures even when Conventional Allopathic Medicine (CAM) fails

  21. I do find Jeremy Sherr’s relationship with law interesting, both in respect of his threat to sue for libel and his ambitious claims about Tanzanian statute on alternative medicine. I may well blog on this soon.

    It is rather disappointing that Rath, the BCA, and now Mr Sherr, all reach for the court writ when their claims are doubted.

  22. alanhenness said

    Nancy

    I’m sure you are getting fed up with me asking you for scientific proof from quality trials that back up your oft-repeated claim that CAM (or even just homoeopathy) is effective for anything, but I’ll keep on asking you as long as you continue to make that claim.

    And please don’t just list articles in AltMed websites or journals: they are NOT scientific and do not constitute proper evidence.

  23. gimpy said

    Shelley and Nancy, putting aside any dispute over the efficacy of homeopathy – do you think that it is acceptable to carry out inadequate medical experiments on terminally ill people in developing countries without informed consent or ethics committee scrutiny and then to make apparently libellous claims of academic support?

  24. [...] and read the blogs of the people who first discovered Sherr’s shenanigans (here, here and here), and went to some trouble to expose him. There you will also find links to the archived originals [...]

  25. Cybergibbons said

    Shelley, Nancy: It doesn’t matter what the alternative treatment is. It could be a conventional drug, or anything. But the trial is being conducted in an unethical manner and the results are going to be meaningless. This is the key issue here.

    Many of the people that Jeremy Sherr will attempt to treat will see a white foreigner behaving like a doctor in a “clinic”. Is he really going to gain informed consent from these people? They will trust him, he looks like all the helpful white doctors who have come before to give out pills. Jeremy Sherr is then going to abuse this trust in the worst way possible.

    I think belief in homeopathy and poor logical reasoning go hand-in-hand – after all, you believe in one of the most ridiculous alternative medicines.

  26. Prompted by Gimpy’s excellent work here, I am examining Sherr’s use of law – both libel and the Tanzanian statute (which I don’t think says what he says it does). See the first of my posts here: http://jackofkent.blogspot.com/2009/01/on-mr-jeremy-sherr-part-one.html

  27. Paddy said

    “If it didn’t work, it would not last for more than 200 years and have so many followers and supporters around the world.”

    Um, what? Look at how long the following have lasted: faith healing, acupuncture, and the belief in witchcraft as a cause of/cure for disease. Should we incoporate them into conventional medicine as well? The “four humours” theory and the miasma theory also lasted a long time, before they were eventually disproved and, a regrettably long time later, rejected. Homeopathy has simply outlived them because, like the earlier items, it avoids making specific theories and testing them.

    “Numbers do not lie ”

    Then show us your numbers – real, scientifically sound evidence for homeopathy working. Please.

    “If homeopathy were such crap, why does this blog and so many other people, from the medical establishment and pharmaceutical companies, make such an effort to fight against it?”

    Never mind the pharmaceutical companies, a few of whom are in bed with the homeopaths, the medical establishment is against homeopathy because it views it as equivalent to the other crap listed above. If they thought it worked, why would they not aim to use it? Do you seriously think they want to deny people health? Conventional medicine has a pretty long record of appropriating what works from a great variety of different traditions, which is one of the main ways in which it annoys herbalists – it took many of their best tools and found how to identify and mass-produce the active agent thereof.

    “If it didn’t work, people would not turn to it and it would fissile out, like many medical theories have over the years.”

    Hopefully, that may yet happen (along with the faith healing, witchcraft and acupuncture). And the word is “fizzle”.

  28. Keith Dunlop said

    I am no homeopath but can attest to the efficacy of Mr Sherr’s homeopathy over the years. In my own case, he has cured a number of ailments that so called “doctors” were unable to treat over a period of years. Doubting homeopathy myself initially, I turned to Jeremy more as a joke to challenge and disprove what he said rather than to support homeopathy. For several months in 2000 I suffered from recurring chronic pancreatitis. After seeing several doctors and being in severe discomfort for several months, Mr Sherr diagnosed a remedy and the discomfort reduced within 30 minutes and after repeated treatments of the same remedy in increased potency went away completely. In 2003, my son almost died of repeated ear infections in late December. The infections continued every week or two until, in May 2004 I begged Mr Sherr to take over the case from another homeopath. He diagnosed a remedy within minutes, and my son has had no ear infections since then. Two cases in my experience of homeopathy by Mr Sherr in extreme action.
    If homeopathy could fight ear infections where conventional medicine could not, then why not AIDS? The key is there somewhere and if anyone can find it is surely Mr Sherr.

    I speak of personal experience of the exceptional diagnostic abilities of Mr Sherr. He has a brilliant mind. I am tempted to believe that the so called “Gimpy” is in fact an employee of a drug company who are extremely afraid of all the money they would lose lest Mr Sherr actually invents a remedy for AIDS that would help people. As usual I follow the money trail.

    When I think of the millions upon millions of people a year suffering early death through the over application and abuse of so called normal medicine, over prescription of antibiotics in many cases etc etc I become angry and extremely offended and hurt that such an excellent soul as Mr Sherr has to put up with the insults and threats of this person, who is seeking to threaten the good work being done by Mr Sherr.

    Mr Sherr is not stopping people taking ARV’s. He is not doing anything illegal and, lastly, no one can know the real motives behind the vitriol that is being posted in this blog.

    Well done Mr Jeremy Sherr. Keep up the good work. And don’t let these extremely misguided people stand in the face of the miraculous work that you do on this very planet.

    As an African, I fully support his work.

  29. “I am tempted to believe that the so called “Gimpy” is in fact an employee of a drug company who are extremely afraid of all the money they would lose lest Mr Sherr actually invents a remedy for AIDS that would help people. As usual I follow the money trail.”

    Well actually you just made up a “money trail”. With no evidence. That’s a lot easier than actually following it, I’ll admit.
    How much did you pay Mr Sherr, by the way?

  30. Sceric said

    Shelly, Nancy and Keith,

    to a certain extend I even can follow your need to reason the way you did. Because otherwise your conscience would need to work overtime! Why? Because you would need to see, how many people are not beeing helped, how many lives are and will be lost due to people like you insisting in the efficiany of homoepathy (put here every other bullsh*t therapy you like). So you need to make up excuses, claim connections that aren’t (yeah everybody here is in the hand of big PHARMA), don’t answer direct questions posted to you and follow your anti-logic train of thoughts (well Keith, Mr. Sherr must be good and homeopathy too…ignoring that the homeopath you used before almost killed your son with his woo??!!). So stay with you reasoning to protect you selves…because what is your psycological well beeing compared to all those people out there dying, because they get only a placebo??

  31. simone said

    As a student of homeopathy and now a homeopath I have witnessed over 60 very difficult cases being treated as open cases on stage in front of the students.
    Follow ups ensued six weeks after taking the remedy that Jeremy perscribed. except one all cases were improved greatly, some to a very impressive degree over a few months, whilst all complaints were long standing problems.

    Since the percentage of cured cases was so high, since most cases were treated with conventional medicine, I can surely attest to his brilliance, and to the miraculous effect of homeopathy. It is a shame that the truth about homeopathy is being trampled on, and that real hope of cure is despicably covered up here. I hope for your sake that you may see the light soon and opt for better engagements.

  32. Rob said

    Simone: you don’t address the specific criticism of Jeremy Sherr which Gimpy makes. Do you think it is right and proper for him to be trialling an unproven treatment on AIDS patients in Tanzania?

  33. Cybergibbons said

    Rob – I think from the perspective of a homeopath it does, because one anecdote reported through hearsay constitutes clinical evidence it seems.

  34. GoodaboutHomeopathy said

    Nice if you guys did as much blabbering about the 14 children that died in the South American Drug Vaccine Trial that is still going on in spite of the REALITY of children being killed.

    Instead you focus on vilifying someone on the basis of something that has not happened yet and your morbid fantasies!

    All your unscientific conjectures are opposite of your current reality based assumptions about homeopathy. It is bizarre and just shows a nasty idiocy.

    Great that homeopathic organizations are not supporting this idiocy. Your voices and writing are slanderous and libelous gossip and if I was Angus Wood I would be very careful as to saying someone is a murderer to authorities when this is not the case at all. Gimpy does all his demagoguery from his anonymous lab but it is only a matter of time when he is outed.

    • Corrie said

      When I was visiting India last year Dec 08, there was a major crisis there after the polio drops, thousands of children fell ill and very many died. It was such a scare that many parents rushed off to the temples and did not vaccinate their children. I think vaccinations can be very dangerous and i wonder what double blind trials they do for them before they put it out to our human race. Of course the rich drug companies were out in the media the next day hushing the whole incident up and scaring the public more with what might happen if they don’t vaccinate their children. Another incident that will make us think, my cousin was vaccinated with the BCG and yet got tuberculosis not once but twice!! in her life time,So, are the vaccines really effective or are they dangerous?????? or can they really prevent us from falling ill?????? I think this really calls for some serious thinking here!!!!

  35. HCN said

    We already know how well homeopathy works with HIV/AIDS. It is mentioned on this website as a one form of treatment if one tests positive for HIV:
    http://www.aliveandwell.org/html/if_youve_tested/ifyouvetested.html

    What is interesting is that its home page has this announcement: “Alive & Well Peer Support Resumes in Los Angeles on Thursday December 11, 7:00 to 9:00 pm…
    Bring your questions, concerns, your friends, family or even your doctor to this dynamic discussion and support group meeting hosted by Alive & Well Founder Christine Maggiore; …”

    As it turns out, Christine Maggiore and her daughter Eliza Jane are no longer “alive and well”, they are actually both dead.

    GoodAboutHomeopathy said “Nice if you guys did as much blabbering about the 14 children that died in the South American Drug Vaccine Trial that is still going on in spite of the REALITY of children being killed.”

    Reference please?

    And how does that exactly compare to the over a million deaths from AIDS (http://data.unaids.org/pub/GlobalReport/2008/jc1510_2008_global_report_pp211_234_en.pdf) in 2007.

    Or to the good news that measles vaccination has reduced measles deaths in Africa by 90%? (http://www.measlesinitiative.org/docs/mi-press-release.pdf)

  36. Cybergibbons said

    GoodaboutHomeopathy – so by that logic, it is better to take action after people have died than before?

    I presume you are talking about the GSK pneumonia vaccine in Argentina? The stories make don’t seem to address the issue of cause and effect. A very small percentage of children on a large scale trial died. That is not the same as a trial caused a very small percentage of children to die. If you can show any evidence to the contrary, that would be most enlightening.

  37. simone said

    Rob, I think it is noble and I am certain it will prove effective too. That is for the reason that a good homeopath sees the situation of the patient and perscribe according to the state and as far as possible to the totality of the main ailing symptoms. Those that endanger lives first and then when the states change perhaps the same remedy to suit the person’s totality is such exist in his dire HIV state or another to suit his new improved state.

    There were a few precedents in curing AIDS, there is a cyprus conference that dealt with cases. Jeremy is not the first homeopath to do it, and he has the homeopathic community and his patients their and everywhere to cheer the efforts.

    Some writers in this blog will eat their hats or will run to a classical homeopath to be treated. I hope for their benefit they opt for the latter.

  38. simone said

    It seems that this blog is limiting the comments by just posting various repeated evaluations that have nothing to do with the content. It is purposely censoring well written comments in order to maintain negation of honest efforts made by Sherr and other homeopaths in saving the lives and quality of lives of the sick people in Zimbabwe and to find a quality cure for the rest of the ailing in Aids.

    Rob, I think it is noble and I am certain it will prove effective too. That is for the reason that a good homeopath sees the situation of the patient and perscribe according to the state and as far as possible to the totality of the main ailing symptoms. Those that endanger lives first and then when the states change perhaps the same remedy to suit the person’s totality is such exist in his dire HIV state or another to suit his new improved state.

    There were a few precedents in curing AIDS, there is a cyprus conference that dealt with cases. Jeremy is not the first homeopath to do it, and he has the homeopathic community and his patients their and everywhere to cheer the efforts.

    Some writers in this blog will eat their hats or will run to a classical homeopath to be treated. I hope for their benefit they opt for the latter.

  39. alanhenness said

    Simone

    You said: “That is for the reason that a good homeopath sees the situation of the patient and perscribe according to the state and as far as possible to the totality of the main ailing symptoms.”

    There are words in your sentence, but little information. Every time I discuss this with homoeopaths, I get the same thing. We occasionally get a bit more detail of what a homoeopath does to come up with a particular preparation, but we get no closer to any understanding of how that process actually works. The real answer to this, of course, is that it doesn’t work and there is no process to understand. It’s all mumbo jumbo.

  40. gimpy said

    Simone,

    It seems that this blog is limiting the comments by just posting various repeated evaluations that have nothing to do with the content. It is purposely censoring well written comments in order to maintain negation of honest efforts made by Sherr and other homeopaths in saving the lives and quality of lives of the sick people in Zimbabwe and to find a quality cure for the rest of the ailing in Aids.

    I assure you I am not censoring comments, I do have a block list but no homeopath is on it. Occasionally a comment will be caught up for moderation due to links or frequent postings but I let these through as soon as I can. I do work and I can’t approve any comment instantly but I do my best to get them through as soon as possible. I am certainly happy to publicise the statements of homeopaths, you might even say it is a raison d’etre for this blog. Your contributions have been most helpful.

  41. HCN said

    Gimpy in replying to Simone said “Your contributions have been most helpful.”

    For their lack of real content?

  42. gimpy said

    HCN, I find them illustrative of the futilities of engaging with homeopaths. A useful example to show that there really is no point in listening to homeopaths anymore, the debate never develops for them.

    • EDA SPINKA said

      It does not seem that the debate develops much for you either – if anything, you are just as closed to homeopathy as homeopaths are to your arguments (your claim). Why not try homeopathy next time you develop a nasty condition, rather than rant and rave about scientific evidence? Scientific evidence itself is not much of an evidence, is it? How much of modern medicine is of real value? If you read scientific papers you will find out that cough/cold mixtures are of no use, that antibiotics, previously widely prescribed are now vary rarely advised, that aspirin for prevention of heart disease and almost routinely suggested for the over 50/60 in effect causes a far greater damage in another area of the body – the catalogue of disasters by so called scientifically-based medicine reads like the longest crime book ever written. If you add to this the number of deaths caused by scientifically qualified doctors – who nowadays are little more than go-between clerks and totally dependent on technology – with your scientific mind you should be able to square the circle, but more likely than not – you won’t.

  43. Paul said

    I speak of personal experience of the exceptional diagnostic abilities of Mr Sherr. He has a brilliant mind.

    He has a terribly crippled mind. Despite ample opportunity and the enormous ethical motivation there must be to attempt to do so, he has failed to grasp the simple logic and facts which must lead any rational mind to the conclusion that his beliefs are false and that what he does is harmful.

  44. Karin said

    Where does al this anger and hate come from, you opposers of homeopathy?

    Is is not wonderful that with homeopathy in an average of 80% of cases symptoms and complaints disappear or are completely cured without having disturbing or killing side effects. (I have never heard of such high placebo effect) Millions of people worldwide enjoy the cure homeopathy can bring. Our regular health care system however is accountable for a lot of disabling and killing every year making it the 3d cause of death. If you do not understand homeopathy or it does not fit your convictions that is fine. But please let others enjoy the benefits. And remember if you put everything that you experience in a framework that is familiar to you, you will never! discover anything new.

    Peace to all.

  45. Karin

    No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. You are soooooo mistaken.

    The ‘anger and hate’ as you put it is simply a desire for integrity and honesty.

    Let’s get a few things straight:

    1. Anecdotes are not the necessary evidence before trying to treat people for potentially life-threatening conditions. It’s not just a few people here who demand that: it’s the ‘patients’ who deserve better: ‘it worked for me, therefore it’ll work for you’ is wholly inadequate and potentially dangerous. Evidence that something works has to be from proper trials where the evidence is looked at IMPARTIALLY. No homoeopath has ever provided any such evidence.

    2. The placebo effect is there with AltMed pseudo science, but so is it with conventional medicines and it is far better to give a patient something that has been IMPARTIALLY proven to work than something that has not – the placebo effect may have additional beneficial effects.

    3. Of course patients die. They are patients in the first place because they have serious medical conditions and we all die – usually of some medical condition. Occasionally it is the fault of a doctor (they are human, of course). Of course, homoeopathic preparations will never kill because they are just sugar, but homoeopaths are responsible for patients who suffer and die because they did not seek proper medical advice.

    4. We’d all love homoeopathy to work. Just think of the saving in pain, suffering and lives (even ignoring the money)! All we need if IMPARTIAL (there’s that word again) proof. We wait in hope, but please forgive us if we think we’re waiting in vain. After all, homoeopaths have had over 200 years to provide IMPARTIAL proof that Hahnemann’s ideas work – how much longer do we have to wait? There have been no quality, controlled, randomised trials that have shown that homoeopathy works any better than placebo.

    5. Whether homoeopathy works or not has nothing to do with the numbers using it. This is called an ad populum fallacy. If a large number of people do think something works that hasn’t been proven, then this may indicate that there might be something worth investigating. This investigation has already been done for homoeopathy and IT DOESN’T WORK!

    6. Homoeopaths never seem to understand science or the scientific method. This isn’t just something arbitrary, but a system that has stood the test of time and provided untold benefits to mankind. Up until around Hahnemann’s time, life expectancy had not changed for millennia: it near enough doubled in the 20th century and this had nothing to do with homoeopathy, but had everything to do with PROPER medicine and science. I’d be willing to bet that you would not be here if it wasn’t for that science you so ignorantly disregard. Science is what works and has been proven to work. Homoeopathy is not science because it does not stand up to any scrutiny whatsoever.

    7. The ‘explanations’ for homoeopathy are no explanations at all. There is no ‘laws of similars’, ‘law of infinitessimals’ and all the other stuff claimed by homoeopaths. They show a supreme lack of any basic understanding of physics, chemistry and biology. Their ‘explanations’ are just not scientifically credible.

    8. It has nothing to do with ‘convictions’ or ‘experience in a framework’. To say that is to totally misunderstand what the world is about and how science works. Science changes and moves on and is totally independent of the thoughts of anyone. Science describes how the world is: homoeopaths describe how they want the world to be. Unfortunately, their gross simplification is absurd. As Ben Goldacre says “I think you’ll find it’s a bit more complicated than that”.

    Now. I’m glad we’ve got that straight.

    • EDA SPINKA said

      I think you will find homeopathy quite a bit more complicated than you think. To start at the beginning, homeopaths are not a group of people who somehow managed to escape a mental asylum; amongst them you will find the likes of you, i.e. scientists and arch-scientists, highly qualified doctors, Cambridge and Oxford graduates, etc, etc. the difference between them and you (as of now) is that of agility of mind and of daring to be proved wrong. Homeopathy does not negate chemistry, physics and biology, but as much as these and other sciences explain about the workings of a human body or the universe, they fall short where treatment is concerned. This is why a number of doctors and scientists cross over to homeopathy. For some such doctors, this means a considerable reduction in income.
      In order to appreciate the painstaking trials of homeopathy, why don’t you go to the records produced by its founder and others. Incidentally, to the best of my knowledge, Hahnemann (homeopathy’s founder)was the inventor of the concept of a placebo long before it became standard in medical science.

  46. Cybergibbons said

    The only place you would get an average success rate of 80% would be when 8 trials were run by homeopaths and the other 2 by scientists.

    Really, where did that number come from?

  47. Jolanda said

    During my education to become a scientist i noticed how small minded many researchers are. If things do not fit in their way of thinking things automatically are rejected. Even though we have learned that it takes to have an open mind in order to practise science.
    I am happy to have come across homeopathy and with the positive results it has on my life.

  48. HCN said

    Gimpy said “I find them illustrative of the futilities of engaging with homeopaths. A useful example to show that there really is no point in listening to homeopaths anymore, the debate never develops for them.”

    Just like their system of “complete medicine” has not developed over the past two centuries. Including their complete inability to show that it actually works for the things like syphilis, rabies, and other non-self-limiting conditions.

    Or to even provide actual evidence other than “it worked for me!”

  49. Cybergibbons said

    Jolanda,

    Being closed minded or open minded is irrelevant. There are two aspects at play here:
    1. Does homeopathy work?
    2. How does homeopathy work?

    Question 1 can be proved in a trial. A carefully designed and controlled trial will eliminate such things as selection bias. How open your mind is makes no odds. Scientists are open minded to trial homeopathy – and the overwhelming evidence points to it being inneffective.

    Question 2 is much harder to answer. There are plenty of conventional drugs that we do not fully understand. But because we have performed a trial, we know they work, we just don’t know how.

    There have been plenty of times in the past where closed minds have slowed or halted the progress of new ideas, due to a lack of understanding. But because they have been backed up by evidence, eventually they have become accepted. This could make question 2 difficult to answer.

    It’s similar to a microwave oven. Most people know they work. They’ve got no idea how they work though. Nonetheless, your ready-meal comes out hot.

    So, show us a well designed trial that says homeopathy is effective. Only after that is it worth trying to explain why.

    • EDA SPINKA said

      If homeopathy is ‘nothing’ and does not work, you should not be afraid to try it next time you develop a condition requiring treatment.

  50. Daniel said

    Way to go Gimpy. Your unqualified contempt for homeopathy is clearer than ever.

  51. Sceric said

    Jolanda,

    isn’t it rather close-mindedness that you and the other proponents of homeopathy show, if you’re again and again refrain from answering clearly stated questions?? The answer to “Are the trials intended by Sherr ethical?” is not “homeapthy works”, nor “unqualified contempt for homeopathy”, nor “anger and hate against homeopathy”, nor “There were a few precedents in curing AIDS, there is a cyprus conference that dealt with cases”, etc. none of these are answers that relate to the questions. So isn’t this rather close minded??

  52. MICHAEL said

    I came across this website and am appalled at the vitriol and ignorance of what is written here. People of a different view are constantly called names and are labelled “pricks”, “murderous” and other similar witless filth. Here is my view and I have no wish to murder anyone! Homeopathy has worked wonders for me and my family (yes another anecdotal story but one that’s replicated millions of times around the world). I had a skin condition that several doctors and dermatologists could do nothing about but which cleared up completely with homeopathy. And please don’t let anyone bleat on about placebo effect, because I initially had much more “belief” in the dermatologist than in the homeopath, so why didn’t the placebo effect work with the dermatologist? The rest of my family have had similar responses. My wife’s skin condition cleared up in a similar manner and she had also been to the dermatologist first. Her migraines of over twenty years have also not returned now in over two years. My son, who is autistic has made and continues to make enormous progress under homeopathic treatment (Autism – another “incurable” condition which is not “fully understood” blah, blah, blah and for which conventional medicine can do nothing). He improves noticeably after he takes a homeopathic remedy and I have seen the pattern countless times (placebo?!).

    The one question I have for those who slander and hurl vile at homeopathy is, “have you ever tried it”? It’s very simple! Try it when you are ill and see if it helps, what could be simpler? What are you afraid of; that it might work and you were wrong? I understand how taking such an all or nothing stance leaves a huge hostage to fortune! Don’t hide behind your trials, be an adult, try it yourself and make up your own mind. And more importantly, allow others to make up theirs! Do you make up your mind about a car by what you read about it or after you test drive it? Do you need a weather man to tell you which direction the wind is blowing or that it‘s raining?

    I find this constant focus on these trials so tedious, as if these trials represent some infallible gold standard. Clearly they are not as evidence by the fact that so many pharmaceutical drugs have to be removed from the market or have their labelling changed on safety grounds, after they have “passed” the trials. And we all know that we live in a world where “science” can be manipulated into a consensus that all too often serves financial and political interests. We also know that many of the “scientific” articles in well-respected medical journals are no more than infomercials paid for by drug firms. And I have yet to see a successful double blind, placebo controlled study on surgery! Techniques have been developed through trial and error and even anecdotal. Is there a problem with that? Should we stop all surgery because it is not to this so called gold standard of purity? And remember, HRT has never been the subject of such a trial and yet is widely used!

    Grow up, develop informed opinions based on personal experience and stop the slanderous filth. A truly scientific mind is open to all possibilities and even if it cannot explain something it remains open to being convinced and does not dismiss it.

  53. gimpy said

    Attention homeopaths and their supporters, which part of my criticisms of Sherr’s actions and ethics do you disagree with? It seems to me that you all, without exception, think it acceptable to carry out experiments on terminally ill patients without informed consent. Am I correct?

    You may want to read the World Medical Association’s Declaration of Helsinki before replying.

  54. Paul said

    Karin wonders at the anger and hatred she sees here and clearly there is good reason for anger about the activities of deluded fantasists such as Sherr. But hatred?

    MICHAEL complains of ignorance and witlessness, then regales us with a catalogue of elementary medical fallacy and falsehood. He declares the most fundamental step in the acquisition of scientific knowledge a tedious irrelevance to him, then presumes to teach us the character of the truly scientific mind.

    I think the sincerity of these ignorant cretins is all too clear and it evokes exasperation and despair, not hatred.

  55. Lester said

    Here is an example of scientific evidence that Homeopathy works, though I doubt you are really interested in any example of a success story that related to Homeopathy. You are entitled to your opinion, however misguided I think it is. Thank you for allowing my opinion to be heard as well.

    A historical and inspiring event took place 10-12 December 2008 in Havana Cuba that Didi Ananda Ruchira, the Director of Abha Light(visit: http://www.abhalight.org, tel: +254 20 445-0181 / cells: +254 733-895466 / +254 723-869133, skype: anandarucira) had the honour to attend and she wrote the following:

    There, the Carlos J Finlay Institute under the guidance of its director-general, Dra. Conception Campa Huergo and Dr. Gustavo Bravo and others hosted NOSODES 2008, an International Meeting on Homeoprophilaxis, Homeopathic Immunization and Nosodes against Epidemics.

    Homeopaths from Cuba, S America, Canada, Australia, UK, and Kenya (yours truly) made presentations on the wide varieties of successful disease prevention using homeopathy and more specifically, nosodes . . .

    Cuba goes through a yearly cycle of Leptospirosis epidemic, especially after the hurricanes flood the countryside and water pollution reaches its height. (Leptospirosis: infectious disease caused by the spirochaete Leptospira transmitted to humans from rats, giving jaundice and kidney damage. Can cause death)

    Annually the population is exposed to the disease, most especially after hurricanes.

    Until Aug 2007, the Finlay Institute (a part of the Ministry of Public Health, Cuba) has been distributing its own Lepto vaccination. August is the height of the hurricane season. Annually, many are left homeless, flooded out and under the stress of disaster situation. There is a sharp rise in the lepto epidemic.

    The usual expectancy of infection, even with vaccination, would have been around a few thousands, with some deaths included.

    Part of the reason for this is that the high cost of vaccination prevents putting but the most at-risk populations (ie children, pregnant women, elderly) on vaccination. The cost of such limited vaccination is about US$3,000.000.

    But in Aug 2007, Finlay put approximately 5,000,000 people (yes! 5 million!) in 2 provinces on homoepathic nosode prophylaxis at the cost of about only US$ 200,000.

    That figure represents the entire population of the 2 provinces. The prophylaxis consisted of 2 single doses about 2 weeks apart. Included in the dose was the Lepto nosode + some Bach flower remedies to address the mental distress of the disaster situation.

    How very amazing it was to watch this presentation being made. Up to the point, the presenters were showing us graph after graph of the usual rise of the epidemic, year after year, even with the use of vaccination. Each year the graphs would edge higher and higher towards the year-end, reaching up to the thousands of infected.

    But this time, within 2 weeks after Aug 2007, the rising lines literally dropped off the chart to ZERO-Ten infections only! Yes. Near-zero infections, zero deaths from leptospirosis after Aug 2007. And in 2008, no deaths, infections less than 10 a month.

    HISTORY MADE for Homeopathy
    This mass treatment of 5 million people with homeopathy, I don’t believe, has been done anywhere else in the world, not even in India, where homeopathy enjoys the shelter of the government.

    And the awesome results of going from hundreds of infected to near-zero in the period of a few weeks, also is historical. My jaw dropped as I watched the graphs demonstrate their success.

    The Cuban team readily admits that they have not invented anything new as far as homeopathic philosophy or application. They have simply followed what we homeopaths know to work. And since they have no pharmaceutical multi-nationals to stop them, they were able to do it on a massive scale unknown in the history of homeopathy.

    What is remarkable is their application to such a large population, and its dramatic success, with full scientific verification. The results are incontrovertible and undeniable even by the most rabid of anti-homeopaths.

    =======
    I’m eagerly awaiting their formal publication in the medical journals of this remarkable event. I’m sure once these medical results are published, homeopaths will have more “weapons” in our “arsenal” to fight for our existence and for the adoption of homeopathy in national health programmes in industrialized and developing countries.

    =======
    As a word or two about Dra Heurgo, Dr. Bravo and the rest of the Cuban team. Truly remarkable people. “Concita” as Dra Heurgo is lovingly known by the people of Cuba, is well known and loved as a woman who has done remarkable work to improve the health of the population. I found her to be a remarkable person – untiring, passionate about her work and compassionate in her motivation to serve her fellow human beings.

    I should like to nominate her for the Nobel Prize.

  56. apgaylard said

    MICHAEL said:
    “And I have yet to see a successful double blind, placebo controlled study on surgery!

    A quick look on the web shows that surgical techniques are tested against other treatments routinely. Placebo surgery is clearly being used, subject to ethical constraints.

    Try some googling and you will see that RCTs are used. As would be expected, for some things surgery works, for other things other interventions are better.

    Clearly there are ethical problems using placebo controls in surgery (which may not be insurmountable) but it doesn’t mean that other appropriate trial designs are not being used.

    “And remember, HRT has never been the subject of such a trial and yet is widely used!”

    Is just obviously false. See here, for example. Just try some simple googling!

    Given that a (very) little effort on my part shows these two statements to be false, why should I take seriously anything else you have to say?

    Don’t you think that it would be better to check the facts before making agressive assertions? Such wild statements hardly help your case.

    Finally, what’s factually wrong with what this post had to say about Sherr?

  57. simone said

    The standard cocktail of chemicals given to the “lucky” ignorant sick people in africa as a standard protocol can harm them more than the dynamic dilution of a homepathic preparation given erroneosly.

    But from what many of us witnesses in the case of Jeremy Sherr as students and patients he would make the utmost moral effort to see that the patients take the best remedy for their individual situation, which is very ethical indeed.

    maybe not by chance I have in front of me tha case of a person of 3 who was operated three times on his right arm for what is called “desmoid sarcoma” he also has been given chemotherapy and radiations none of which helped. Finally the sarcoma bursted in his right palm, the size of a tennis ball. he is now being treated for this since april 2007 and has been given over this period todate only homeopathic remedies. the result is great relief of the terrible pain with a slow reduction in size of the growth and the ability to function much better today. Apart from this very good development ther person became confident in himself, looks and behaves in a much more relaxed manner and has stopped taking the eye drops he has been using since the age of five everysingle day.

    Now the doctors who have operated previously have proposed to Cut off his right thumb and index finger along with the growth.

    They want to check his lung for growths because the statictics show that after such operations of this kind of sarcoma, the lungs get malignant growth (desmoid being mostly benign in the first stage).

    This is one of the better cases of mine, what you call here call “anecdotal”. I am most blessed to have a few anecdotes where the person healed in the totality of their ailments are grateful for being ‘anecdotal’ or whatever you may call it. Some of them babies and some were unconscious when I administered the remedies (as well as my colleagues have done in similar situations ), with amazing results of healing. So the placebo effect is hereby denied, a billion times over every treatment with homeopathic dynamic remedies.

  58. apgaylard said

    See here for comments on the the Cuban Leptospirosis claims. And here for evidence on ARVs reducing the risk of mother-to-child transmission of HIV infection. Try this one for ARV therapy generally, though there are probably better references out there.

    Now how can Sherr or his acolytes justify not giving ARVs to people with HIV/AIDS?

  59. I do not know the details of the study that you think Jeremy Sherr plans to conduct, but according to his blog, he does NOT have any study formed (www.jeremysjournalfromafrica.blogspot.com). I have also not seen any evidence that Jeremy Sherr takes people off conventional AIDS medication, either in a study or in his private practice He simply accepts for homeopathic treatment any person who seeks his care. Because some people in Africa do not want to take conventional medications, it seems questionably ethical to force people to take drugs (I hope that you are not of the school of thought that believes in forced medication in AIDS care). The majority of people who seek Sherr’s care are already on ARVs, and his work is primarily adjunctive.

    It seems obvious to me that you have chosen to blow this whole thing out of proportion to what is really going on. You seek to incite your audience by claiming that Sherr desires to carry out his “healing fantasies by human experimentation.” It is a tad ironic that you claim that there is “no” research proving that homeopathy works (which is not accurate), and yet, you insist that any clinical research with homeopathy is “unethical” (that’s a good Catch 2,222!).

    In due respect, homeopathy has a long history of efficacy in the treatment of infectious disease, and in fact, the primary reason that homeopathy attained great popularity in the 19th century was due to its impressive results in treating the many infectious disease epidemics that raged at that time. Two Popes granted the highest honor that they could offer non-clergy to homeopathic doctors who provided effective treatment to people during cholera epidemics. Please try to treat who with cholera with a “placebo” and see what results you get (nada).

    In addition to historical evidence, there is a body of modern basic science evidence (such as the material that I just sent you, as well as this review of in vitro studies: Witt CM, Bluth M, Albrecht H, Weisshuhn TE, Baumgartner S, Willich SN.
    Complement Ther Med. 2007 Jun;15(2):128-38. Epub 2007 Mar 28.
    The in vitro evidence for an effect of high homeopathic potencies–a systematic review of the literature.
    From 75 publications, 67 experiments (1/3 of them replications) were evaluated. Nearly 3/4 of them found a high potency effect, and 2/3 of those 18 that scored 6 points or more and controlled contamination. Nearly 3/4 of all replications were positive.), as well as other clinical studies that suggest that homeopathic medicines can play a role in the treatment of people with immune deficiency syndromes:

    Jaeger H, Eger J, Koegl C, et al. Healthy unrest: Canova stimulates CD4 cells in ART treated virologically suppressed but immunologically unresponsive HIV patients, XVII International AIDS Conference, August 3-8, 2008, Mexico City. http://www.aids2008.org/Pag/Abstracts.aspx?AID=15800 — Hans Jaeger seems to be a respected AIDS researcher, and he was interviewed by a major German press wire service: http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,3530953,00.html

    Bissuel F, Cotte JB, Crapanne P, et al., Trimethoprim-sulphamethoxazole rechallenge in 20 previously allergic HIV-infected patients after homeopathic desensitization, AIDS 1995, 9,4:407-408.

    Ullman, D, Controlled Clinical Trials Evaluating the Homeopathic Treatment of People with HIV or AIDS, Journal of Alternative and Complementary Medicine, February 2003,9,1:133-142

    Just as Barack Obama seeks to get beyond “partisan politics” to create a more collaborative society, I sincerely hope that you will consider getting beyond “partisan medicine” to accept the real possibility of a comprehensive and integrative medical care system.

  60. Sceric said

    “Two Popes granted the highest honor.. “, that is actually funny…guys following an unnecessary/unproven/unprovable entity give honours to a unnecessary/unproven/unprovable therapy…Sceric starts singing: “Isn’t it ironic, don’t you think….”

  61. Cybergibbons said

    you insist that any clinical research with homeopathy is “unethical”

    This hasn’t been stated. It is the manner in which Sherr described carrying out this particular trail which is unethical.

    I can’t see all of those papers, the abstract you link to doesn’t seem to involve any control group though.

  62. Dana, just curious, can you read?

    “It seems obvious to me that you have chosen to blow this whole thing out of proportion to what is really going on. You seek to incite your audience by claiming that Sherr desires to carry out his “healing fantasies by human experimentation.” It is a tad ironic that you claim that there is “no” research proving that homeopathy works (which is not accurate), and yet, you insist that any clinical research with homeopathy is “unethical” (that’s a good Catch 2,222!).”

    There’s a difference between homeopathic research on AIDS patients in Africa, and research on Westerners with back pain and headaches. The former is unethical, the latter is obviously perfectly ethical. Albeit stupid since there is no plausible mechanism by which homeopathy could be anything other than a placebo.

  63. Paul said

    During the early 19th century cholera outbreaks, fewer patients died among those who were treated by homeopaths than among those who were administered poisons, drained of blood and deprived of fluids etc.

    A child would laugh at the idea that such results constitute even the slightest support for the efficacy of homeopathy.

    The notoriously ongoing series of Benveniste-style pseudo-experiments, of which that Witt et al paper seems to be a review, are enough to make any competent and honest scientist’s hair turn white.

    The modern scientific evidence, when extracted from the cesspit of fraud/cargo cult/bad science in which it is embedded, shows exactly what one would expect it to show.

  64. Pete said

    I am glad to see that everyone posting on this blog obviously wants to help the Tanzanians so much in their fight against AIDS. Faced with little cash and grim realities I would have thought that the medical people in Tanzania would not waste any money on homeopathy unless it had large support localy.
    If it turns out that homeopathy has lots of local support then no one shouting from the UK can force anyone in Tanzania not to use it alongside anti viral medication.
    Likewise if it turns out that homeopathy has little or no local support in Tanzania then no shouting from homeopaths will change this.
    If poor people in Tanzania dont want to or cant afford to take anti virals then I dont think that homeopaths are at fault if they treat these people so long as local Drs are involved- In many cases local Drs may not be available.
    It will be interesting to see the forthcoming decisions from Tanzanian medical establishment..

  65. Smith said

    Indeed, this is *bad* science!
    Instead of using time-proven, effective methods, people want to use belief-based so-called “Modern” medicine. Madness!
    I have seen so many lives saved by homeopatic practitioners. It should be applied everywhere!

  66. HCN said

    Neuroskeptic said “Dana, just curious, can you read?”

    Actually, Mr. Ullman is completely incompetent when it comes to reading comprehension. His totally fact free ramblings about Darwin using homeopathy, the crappy studies he drags out and other idiocies have been trashed, analyzed and he has been told multiple times why they are wrong in many places (Quackometer blog, Respectful Insolence blog, the JREF forums (where his idiot HIV/AIDS paper was discussed) and even Wikipedia where he was banned). But, he keeps dragging them out as supposed “proof”.

    Smith claimed “I have seen so many lives saved by homeopatic practitioners. It should be applied everywhere!”

    First you have to prove it does anything. For one thing Andre Saine has claimed homeopathy works better for rabies (during a homeopathy debate in Connecticut, a direct link at of “The Skeptic’s Guide to the Universe” podcast website). That is a testable argument. Show us the proof.

    By the way, you have it backwards claiming that “modern medicine” is belief based. Do you live on Bizarro World? (for those who are younger, that is an alternate universe in the Superman comic books where everything is opposite)

    (note I am trying to avoid the spamtrap, so I did not post URLs, but they are easily found)

  67. I expected more scientific discourse here.

    Sceric refers to homeopathy as an “unprovable therapy.” In that case, how do you explain:

    J. Jacobs, WB Jonas, M Jimenez-Perez, D Crothers, Homeopathy for Childhood Diarrhea: Combined Results and Metaanalysis from Three Randomized, Controlled Clinical Trials, Pediatr Infect Dis J, 2003;22:229-34. This metaanalysis of 242 children showed a highly significant result in the duration of childhood diarrhea (P=0.008).

    Frass, M, Dielacher, C, Linkesch, M, Endler, C, Muchitsch, I, Schuster, E, Kaye, A. Influence of potassium dichromate on tracheal secretions in critically ill patients, Chest, March, 2005;127:936-941. (Research conducted at the University of Vienna)

    Bell IR, Lewis II DA, Brooks AJ, et al. Improved clinical status in fibromyalgia patients treated with individualized homeopathic remedies versus placebo, Rheumatology. 2004:1111-5. Participants on active treatment showed significantly greater improvements in tender point count and tender point pain, quality of life, global health and a trend toward less depression compared with those on placebo. People on homeopathic treatment also experienced changes in EEG readings. “Helpfulness from treatment” in homeopathic patients was very significant (P=.004).

    Belon P, Banerjee P, Choudhury SC, Banerjee A., Can administration of potentized homeopathic remedy, Arsenicum album, alter antinuclear antibody (ANA) titer in people living in high-risk arsenic contaminated areas? I. A correlation with certain hematological parameters. Evid Based Complement Alternat Med. 2006 Mar;3(1):99-107.

    Neuroskeptic says that there is no plausible mechanism. This statement suggests that he simply hasn’t done his homework. I invite you to the website for professor Martin Chaplin. His writings on “homeopathy” and the “memory of water” are rigorous:
    http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/homeop.html

    Paul seems to think that one cannot learn from history. He may not be able to do so, but that is his limitation. That said, many in medicine today don’t learn from history. Perhaps this explains why conventional medicine always insists that its methods are “proven” now, even though what is “proven” changes with fashion.

    Paul’s reference to Witt’s review being about the work of Benveniste. Wrong. Paul has simply proven that he has not read this review. Whooops.

  68. HCN said

    Except, Dana, you have never shown any capacity to understand basic English much less any science. Even after being told that what you wrote about Darwin was not supported even by the documents you quoted, you still barged straight ahead and continued to post the same idiot stuff.

    Like this study “Frass, M, Dielacher, C, Linkesch, M, Endler, C, Muchitsch, I, Schuster, E, Kaye, A. Influence of potassium dichromate on tracheal secretions in critically ill patients, Chest, March, 2005;127:936-941. (Research conducted at the University of Vienna)”

    Which was discussed, trashed and hashed at Respectful Insolence. You still do not have in your head that it was a small study, they were still given real medicine and the two groups were UNbalanced (the much sicker patients were in the “control” group).

    And you have the temerity to say “Paul has simply proven that he has not read this review. Whooops.”

    You have yet to show us where the actual evidence for Andre Saine’s completely insane claim that homeopathy works better than real medicine for rabies. You only whimpered that it was coming out in his new book. Sorry, that is not good enough.

  69. Dana

    I don’t have easy access to PubMed at the moment, so all I have to go on are the abstracts. Unfortunately, there is insufficient information in these abstracts of the trials you mentioned to form any conclusion as to whether these trials are of good quality, whether the blinding is adequate and whether the randomisation was adequate or what factors were not controlled.

    However, given the claims of homoeopathy, I find it strange (no, not really) that all the trials that homoeopaths come up with only show that it makes knees a bit less sore or it reduces tracheal secretions a bit. Given the extraordinary and extravagant claims made for homoeopathy, I await extraordinary results.

  70. Paul said

    Actually, Mr. Ullman is completely incompetent when it comes to reading comprehension.

    So I see.

    Dana, I love to play crank swap too! Martin Chaplin eh? Ok, my turn….

    Tiller and Dibble: http://tillerfoundation.com/biography.php

  71. The study above referenced in CHEST was in the treatment of people with COPD. This is the #4 reason that people in the US die. This is not a minor condition (Allan, how did you miss this one?…and yes, the results here are extraordinary).

    HCN thinks that he has “trashed” this study. HA!

    This prospective, randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled study with parallel assignment was performed to assess the influence of sublingually administered Kali bichromicum (potassium dichromate) 30C on the amount of tenacious, stringy tracheal secretions in critically ill patients with a history of tobacco use and COPD (Frass, Dielacher, Linkesch, et al, 2005). In this study, 50 patients received either Kali bichromicum 30C globules (group 1) or placebo (group 2). Five globules were administered twice daily at intervals of 12 hours. The amount of tracheal secretions on day 2 after the start of the study as well as the time for successful extubation and length of stay in the ICU were recorded. The amount of tracheal secretions was reduced significantly in group 1 (p < 0.0001). Extubation (the removal of obstructive mucus from the lung with a tube) could be performed significantly earlier in group 1 (p < 0.0001). Similarly, length of stay was significantly shorter in group 1 (4.20 +/- 1.61 days vs 7.68 +/- 3.60 days, p < 0.0001 [mean +/- SD]). This data suggest that potentized (diluted and vigorously shaken) Kali bichromicum may help to decrease the amount of stringy tracheal secretions in COPD patients.

    In this study, all patients underwent a trial of extubation, but none (!) of the patients in group 1 had to be reintubated or needed even noninvasive ventilation to improve breathing. The amount of secretions remained stable and did not increase for patients in group 1. Also, the blood gas analyses after extubation remained stable in group 1. In contrast, four patients in group 2 had to be reintubated due to deterioration of blood gas analysis that was caused by tracheal secretions of grade 2 or 3.

    The initial differences between the subjects in the treatment and in the placebo group do not account for the substantial differences that this study found. This is why TWO separate universities are in the process now of replicating this important study.

    As for William Tiller’s work, he was the chair of the material sciences department at Stanford for a couple of decades. What do you have to compare with that?

  72. Paul said

    I have a still rational mind, a level of reading comprehension sufficient to discern the difference between “Benveniste-style” and “the work of Benveniste”, and integrity enough not to flaunt hopelessly flawed and unethically conducted pseudoscience as supporting evidence.

    http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2007/07/homeopathy_in_thecringeicu_1.php

  73. wilsontown said

    Ah, Dana.

    Neuroskeptic says that there is no plausible mechanism. This statement suggests that he simply hasn’t done his homework. I invite you to the website for professor Martin Chaplin. His writings on “homeopathy” and the “memory of water” are rigorous:
    http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/homeop.html

    Martin Chaplin is speculating based on things that are totally unconnected with homeopathy. I spent some time debunking some of his claims here. There is nothing rigorous about them. For what it’s worth, what I wrote was published in the pseudoscience comic Homeopathy, so I would imagine that Dana would have access to it. Even so, I doubt he’ll address any of the substantive points. He never has before.

    Is anyone detecting a pattern?

  74. Dana said: “The study above referenced in CHEST was in the treatment of people with COPD. This is the #4 reason that people in the US die. This is not a minor condition (Allan, how did you miss this one?…and yes, the results here are extraordinary).”

    I assume you mean me. COPD is certainly serious, but, as I said, all the abstract talks about is that patients given homoeopathy seemed to show slightly reduced tracheal secretions. Now, I’m sure that those patients were very grateful (if it was the homoeopathy that did cause this), but please don’t confuse that with curing COPD or anything like it. Now, if they had demonstrated a significant reduction in airway inflammation, or a measured increase in lung function, I might have been more impressed.

  75. Chris said

    I found this link:
    http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2007/12/homeopathic-revolution-by-dana-ullman.html

    In it a “BadlyShavedMonkey” in the comments asked a question, at least twice (it is mentioned a few other times in the comments). It is:
    GIVE ONE, YOU ONLY NEED ONE, INCONTROVERTIBLE EXAMPLE, WITH REFERENCES, OF HOMEOPATHY CURING A NON-SELF-LIMITING CONDITION.

    Has Dana Ullman ever answered that question?

  76. wilsontown said

    Amazing that Dana continues to cite the Frass et al. study. It was comprehensively debunked at Respectful Insolence.

    Put simply, the control group and the treatment group were not equivalent. The placebo group contained 4 patients with moderate or severe COPD: the treatment group contained only 1 such patient. That is, the patients in the placebo group were in worse condition than the treatment group at baseline. It is no surpise that the placebo group remained in worse condition at the endpoint of the trial. Dana has written, in many places, that this critique is wrong, but he is yet to explain why.

    Dana, the floor is yours.

  77. Chris said

    More goodness about Dana Ullman:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DanaUllman#Topic_ban_.28Homeopathy.29

    Bottom of the page, dated 30 June 2008 it says “User DanaUllman (talk · contribs) has been banned from Wikipedia for a period of one year.”

  78. “Neuroskeptic says that there is no plausible mechanism. This statement suggests that he simply hasn’t done his homework.”

    When I was studying chemistry at Cambridge University (smirk) I did have a tendency to shirk my homework Dana but I still passed my exams and I still managed to learn the basic principles of physics and chemistry which make homeopathy implausible. The memory of water research, it were true, is quite irrelevant since homeopathic remedies are generally found not as drops of water but as sugar pills onto which the water has been placed and then dried. I await references showing that sugar has a memory, and that it can absorb the memories of water. I also await an explanation for why drinking a glass of tap-water doesn’t cure all diseases, given that over the years the molecules that go up to make my glass of tap-water should have absorbed the memory of just about every substance on earth.

  79. Kat said

    Mr Ullman is successful in one aspect. He has completely derailed this blog and its comments from the key point: Is it ethical to experiment on HIV/AIDS patients in Africa with an unproven therapy, using a protocol which would clearly contravene the guidelines of the Helsinki Agreement (which for those unfamiliar with it is the internationally accepted standards for the ethics of clinical trials.) Maybe the reason Mr Ullman did not see Mr Sherr’s intent to conduct unethical trials is because after it was pointed out, Mr Sherr busied himself removing the more incriminating statements from his website. They are cached on various blogs, so still available if Mr Ullman cares to look for them.

    It is totally irrelevant for him to be going round the circle yet again, using a few poor-standard studies which he thinks support his view that homeopathy works, and which have been comrehensively refuted on numerous other blogs & forums. Perhaps Mr Ullman could take a homepathic remedy to improve both his memory and critical thinking skills, or remove the blinkers.

    If homeopathy works, why are the homeopaths – and in this case Mr Sherr – so reluctant to design good quality studies which would have a chance of showing significant results?
    Scratching around to find a few poor quality studies published in mostly low impact journals, and repeating them ad nauseam does not convince.

  80. simone said

    For all argumnet regarding The memory of water and Placebo Effect relating to homeopathic remedies – I dare you all skeptics to take some remedies, say Arnica 1M in the event that he/she bumps hard agains a lampost or whatever can give someone a black and blue scar for a least a week.

    I can promise that the effect on the pain will be immediate and that the mark will diminished soon after.

  81. Paul said

    Simone, we skeptics like to avoid falling for the post hoc fallacy at least as much as we like to avoid walking into lampposts or failing to take into account the placebo effect.

  82. simone said

    Well Paul, continue being cautious. Do not experiment, what you do not know will not hurt you. Ignorance is bliss. etc. Dare not take placebos.

  83. Simone said: “I dare you all skeptics to take some remedies, say Arnica 1M”

    I thought they were all individualised treatments? How can you possibly know that’ll work for me without asking me about what I dreamt about last night or whether I’m ‘jealous’ or ‘anxious and indecisive’ or whatever?

    Anyway, it’s already been done, including taking an ‘overdose’. Result: no effect.

    “I can promise that the effect on the pain will be immediate and that the mark will diminished soon after.”

    What’s your promise worth? Would you refund the money I’ve given for the quack preparation if I report no difference?

  84. HCN said

    Mr. Ullman is a known liar, or uses a blog-bot to post the same crappy stuff every time he googles his name or homeopathy.

    Simone, here is a way you can prove homeopathy:

    Andre Saine claims that homeopathy works better for rabies than the present standard of care (which involves a series of injections bases on the science conducted by Pasteur in the 19th century, but has been vastly improved over the last few decades of medical research). What you need to do is take some animals that have rabies (dogs, squirrels, rats, whatever) and treat one group with homeopathy and another group with the present standard of care.

    Since rabies is almost 100% fatal, you should have definite proof.

    The problem comes with the ethics of allowing animals to die. Much like what will happen to the people infected with HIV that Mr. Sherr wants to treat with homeopathy.

  85. “For all argumnet regarding The memory of water and Placebo Effect relating to homeopathic remedies – I dare you all skeptics to take some remedies, say Arnica 1M in the event that he/she bumps hard agains a lampost or whatever can give someone a black and blue scar for a least a week.

    I can promise that the effect on the pain will be immediate and that the mark will diminished soon after.”

    That’s not how dares work because we don’t believe in homeopathy. here’s the real dare: we both drink some water containing Salmonella, I get whatever antibiotics I want and you get whatever homeopathy you want.

    Last one to the toilet wins.

  86. Wilsontown and Orac’s “analysis” of the study on COPD in “CHEST” is an embarrassment to scientifically-minded people (and I assume the readers here would like to think of themselves as such). I therefore challenge Wilsontown to simply take out the THREE best-responding patients from the homeopathic treatment group and tell me what results remain. (The number 3 is chosen here due to this being the difference in the moderate to severe COPD). We all eagerly await your answer.

    This study in CHEST did not seek to evaluate a “cure” for COPD, but hospitalization stay was cut in HALF (!) and reintubation was not needed in the homeopathic treatment group. Is someone out there going to tell a COPD patient that THESE results are not important? Come on, say it!

    As for evidence of cure of other serious disease, do malignant cancers count? If so, read this from ONCOLOGY REPORT (2008):
    http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache:q0SPoyu9P8oJ:www.ayudacancer.com/foro/attachment.php%3Fitem%3D514+oncology+reports+homeopathic+Banerji+2008&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=12&gl=us

    What is interesting here is that NONE of the skeptics of homeopathy here have the backbone to critique each others’ weak statistical analyses, and no one likes to give reference to any of the many positive studies that have gotten published in the high impact peer review journals.

  87. Dana

    My comments and questions on that trial still apply and have not been answered.

  88. gimpy said

    Dana, can we please engage with the substantive issue highlighted by this blog of homeopaths carrying out unethical trials. Regardless of whether or not homeopathy works don’t you think homeopaths should be subject to the same ethical strictures as evidence based researchers?

  89. This ‘clincher’ trial you mention concludes:

    “Well-designed prospective, randomized, controlled, clinical trials critically evaluating the efficacy of homeopathic therapy for the treatment of cancer have not been performed.”

    I await the results of these critically evaluated trials.

  90. Gimpy is right: we should be sticking to the topic, rather then being diverted down an endless road of inconclusive ‘clinical’ trials.

  91. simone said

    Well paul and Alan , thank you for being so alert. Homeopathy has some exceptions in the case of blows shocks of first aid nature, but even in these occasions there is individualization. But Arnica in various potencies work on 90% or more of the hard blows hematomas, one can see it while it happens, the blow and swelling declining in minutes and the color change. Very good in CVA’s too. Yes, I do recommend you consult a classical homeopath as to the potencies in each individual case and a complementary constitutional remedy can do wonders after the first shock.

    But of course do not take any sugar pills, fear them placebos.

  92. Dr. Taya van Waterschoot said

    It saddens me that a blog such as this is formed attempting to slander individuals giving their time, effort and open mind to help those in need.

    At the end of the day it is a “he, said / she, said” argument. And at the end of the day why discredit an entire profession of individuals whose only desire is to help others, like you do. I don’t need to speak about how many individuals I have helped, when they have come to me as their last resort after ALL allopathic medical paths have exhausted themselves. What I do I do to help others live a better life – and with homeopathy I succeed again and again.

    WHY there is anger and time and energy being wasted on creating a blog like this when your time can be better spent with the patients, in the trenches, writing articles with positive messages, doing good, is beyond me.

    But then humans are a funny bunch aren’t they? I wish you luck on your life path and hope that you can feel proud of what you are offering to society….may it be helping people instead of attacking them.

  93. Nash said

    Simone

    Whenever I’ve knocked myself and got a bruise, it has gone away within a day or so. So I don’t really see the need to pay for something that makes toss all difference.

  94. Individualization of treatment in homeopathy is usually essential for the most effective results, but there are rare exceptions, such as Kali bic 30C for COPD patients with a thick stringy tracheal secretion…or Oscilloccinum during the first stages of the flu.

    It is interesting that you folks have such fixed ideas (and misinformation) about homeopathy. Such sloppy thinking…and yet, you hold yourselves out as “defenders” of science. Eeeks.

    And yes, ethical guidelines apply to all, though some of you think that any experiment on homeopathy is “unethical.” Sloppy ethics now. Jeez.

    Oh…I’m still waiting to hear someone’s statistical analysis of the COPD study, minus the 3 best results from the homeopathic subject. Come on…we’re all still waiting…

  95. As has already been said, we don’t all have access to the full study and the abstract is useless.

    Besides, didn’t Gimpy ask that we keep on topic? What about the ethics of that Sherr trial?

  96. Sue said

    It amazes me to see the level of fear and ignorance that is displayed for all the world to see. I don’t understand the fear, no one is making anyone take a remedy unless they wish to and if it really is placebo then why does it matter? Oh yes, the thousands of dollars that Jeremy or other homeopaths are wringing out of their clients ! Not ! In Africa ?? Just because you don’t understand something and it scares the H___ out of you, is no reason to become foulmouthed to others who have a wider world view and inquiring minds. No one on this planet has asked for protection from homeopathy, so go away and let people who are users of homeopathy alone. We like peace and quiet and actually have a remedy for people with little closed , fearful minds.

    Sue Boyle R. N. homeopath

  97. HCN said

    Alan Henness said “As has already been said, we don’t all have access to the full study and the abstract is useless.”

    Look here:
    http://dcscience.net/frass-homeop-icu-05.pdf

    And continued with “What about the ethics of that Sherr trial?”

    They are somewhere along the line of my suggested study of animals with rabies: extremely evil.

    Which brings back a veterinarian (“Badly Shaved Monkey”) and his request at http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2007/12/homeopathic-revolution-by-dana-ullman.html , dated 6 Jan. 2008 of:
    GIVE ONE, YOU ONLY NEED ONE, INCONTROVERTIBLE EXAMPLE, WITH REFERENCES, OF HOMEOPATHY CURING A NON-SELF-LIMITING CONDITION.

    You have been given a list of candidate conditions that would qualify. I would especially like to see you produce a patient cured of AIDS by homeopathy.

    If you recall, I started a clock on this. It now stands at;

    T = +2mth 11d 05h 54m 17s”

    At present the clock would be 14 months. Perhaps Mr. Sherr’s “research” will show exactly what effectiveness homeopathy would have with HIV/AIDS.

    Unfortunately the most likely outcome would be deaths of innocent victims. Also with the level of “truthiness” practiced by the homeopaths I doubt that Mr. Sherr will publish any failure (note that Ullman has failed to post the more recent 2006 paper on homeopathy and diarrhea by the SAME primary investigator that showed no effectiveness, see PubMed article # 17034278). He has already been documented of changing his blog, censoring and not quite giving the full truth, as documented by Gimpy.

    It seems “truth” is only available in 200C homeopathic dilutions by homeopaths.

  98. Yuri Perel said

    The only thing which is pretty obvious to me from the above discussion is that Messrs. Gimpy, Henness et al. are professional smearers very skilful in dodging the inconvenient facts and twisting “the truth you’ve spoken to make a trap for fools”. I’d be delighted to learn more about their background, occupation, previous smearing campaigns they participated in, and where their paycheques come from. They are too apt for general-public-welfare-motivated amateurs they pretend to be.

    Mr. Ullman, you have my full respect as homeopathic Practitioner and Educator. Please “do not give what is holy to dogs – they will only turn and attack you. Do not throw your pearls in front of pigs – they will only trample them underfoot”.

    I am a mechanical engineer. Me and my family were successfully treated by homeopathy on numerous occasions. This is my personal statistics and it works perfectly for me. Just 250 years ago bloodletting was considered a scientific treatment, while electric & magnetic phenomena commonly used nowadays in medical devices were not discovered yet. I wonder how modern medicine would look 200 years from now.

  99. David Johnson said

    Not all Cambridge scientists are persuaded that homeopathy is implausible:

    “Brian Josephson, Ph.D. is a British physicist who won a Nobel Prize in Physics in 1973 for work that he had completed at the youthful age of 22 years old. He is currently a professor at the University of Cambridge where he is the head of the mind-matter unification project in the Theory of Condensed Matter research group.

    Responding to an article in the New Scientist (October 18, 1997), he wrote:
    ‘Regarding your comments on claims made for homeopathy: criticisms centered around the vanishingly small number of solute molecules present in a solution after it has been repeatedly diluted are beside the point, since advocates of homeopathic remedies attribute their effects not to molecules present in the water, but to modifications of the water’s structure.
    Simple-minded analysis may suggest that water, being a fluid, cannot have a structure of the kind that such a picture would demand. But cases such as that of liquid crystals, which while flowing like an ordinary fluid can maintain an ordered structure over macroscopic distances, show the limitations of such ways of thinking. There have not, to the best of my knowledge, been any refutations of homeopathy that remain valid after this particular point is taken into account.’

  100. RJ said

    I, too, am shocked at the nasty comments, but the truth is that clinical trials are not all they’re cracked up to be. Recently studied were clinical trials where they studied the OUTCOME of the trial expected by the person implementing it. They found if the person believed the trial would succeed, it did. If the person did not believe it would succeed, it didn’t (statistical significance). While it has been attributed to quantum physics, homeopathy is not that well understood. It is not easily explained. Can you explain gravity? Do you think it is a scam? The scientist, Benveniste, wrote about his studies of homeopathy in the 1990′s, while studying something completely different. He found there were quantifiable changes in the medium. Why is there no rational talk here? Why is it all vitriole and name calling?

  101. Karen said

    Very interesting to see blatant ignorance & attempts to discredit credible research in homeopathy, by highly offensive people who follow a leader who hasn’t the integrity or conscience to even identify himself.

    If homeopathy could be proven to kill even a fraction of the numbers of people whose deaths were admittedly (by JAMA for example) CAUSED by medical drugs & procedures (not speaking here of the inevitable demise of sick people already on their deathbed), it would not even be a controversy, it would die out without anyone to defend it, because the physician who truly subscribes to the Hippocratic Oath would not vehemently & violently defend a system of medicine that kills & maims patients.

    Perhaps one reason that the issue keeps being diverted from the question of the ethics of Mr. Sherr’s conduct, is that this question is not based upon sound & provable assertions, but malicious, intentional conjecture coming from individuals who cannot demonstrate that their efforts are based upon compassion for suffering humanity, but appear to be based upon a biased intention to attempt to do harm to time-tested modalities which they do not agree with, understand or support.

    The following is excerpted from Scientific Journals International’s website; for those on this blog who have open minds, enjoy:

    “Human history is riddled with examples of innovations and research that had been suppressed and derogated by the leading science community and the accepted scientific conventions of the time. Throughout human history, many innovators became the victims of the insults of the skeptical scientific, governmental and corporate power elites.

    Many innovators, scientists, and scholars know that disagreeing with the dominant view is risky, especially when that view is backed by powerful interest groups. When someone introduces a new innovation, presents an unconventional scientific view, or comes out with a new way of doing things that threatens a powerful interest group, typically a government, industry or professional body, representatives of that group attack the innovator’s ideas and the innovator personally. Such attacks are carried out by censoring writing, blocking publications, withdrawing or denying grants, taking legal actions, and spreading false information or rumors.

    What are the effects of suppression of new ideas, intellectual dissent, unconventional, or unpopular scientific views? Suppression is not only a denial of the open debate that is the foundation of a free society, it also creates artificial barriers and in effect retard innovation and creativity. Moreover, it has a chilling effect that breeds external censorship as well as self-censorship. If we can learn anything from the history of science, it is the dissidents and the unconventional thinkers who have spurred science on.

    The following quotes and facts illustrate the initial hostile and trivializing attitude towards new ideas, scientific inquiries, and revolutionary innovations.

    “I watched his countenance closely, to see if he was not deranged… and I was assured by other Senators after we left the room that they had no confidence in it.” –Reaction of Senator Smith of Indiana after Samuel Mores demonstrated his telegraph before member of Congress in 1842.

    “There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home.”
    –Ken Olson, president, chairman and founder of Digital Equipment Corp., 1977.

    Nobel Laureate Hans Krebs’ discovery of the metabolic cycle that would eventually bear his name was rejected from the journal Nature.

    When Nobel Laureate Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar presented his ideas at the Royal Astronomical Society in January 1935, most famous astronomer at that time, Arthur Eddington, ridiculed his ideas. It took decades before the Chandrasekhar Limit was accepted by all astrophysicists and eventually his idea became the foundation for the theory of black holes. Forty years later, Chandrasekhar was awarded the 1983 Nobel Prize in physics.

    Galileo’s ideas about the universe were first dismissed as being impossible. The priests and aristocrats feared the worldview that his ideas were beginning to force upon people. Galileo was placed under house arrest.

    Nobel prize-winning biochemist Albert Szent-Gyorgyi never got funded for his work on the relevance of quantum physics to living organisms.

    As documented by Dr. Brian Martin of University of Wollongong, in his books and articles (source), many scientists pursuing research critical of pesticides or proposing alternatives to pesticides have come under attack and have been threatened with dismissal and in some cases had been dismissed. Government scientists critical of nuclear power have lost their staff and have been transferred as a form of harassment.

    When Nobel laureate Hans Alfven came up with the idea of parallel electric fields he was ridiculed for his work.

    When Nobel laureate Svante Arrhenius proposed his idea that electrolytes are full of charged atoms, it was considered a crazy notion.

    “Mr. Bell, after careful consideration of your invention, while it is a very interesting novelty, we have come to the conclusion that it has no commercial possibilities.” — J. P. Morgan’s comments on behalf of the officials and engineers of Western Union after a demonstration of the telephone.

    “This ‘telephone’ has too many shortcomings to be seriously considered as a means of communication. The device is inherently of no value to us.” –Western Union internal memo, 1876.

    Luigi Galvani’s experiments were ridiculed because they countered established views. He was called the “frogs’ dance instructor.” His innovative experiments eventually became the basis for the biological study of neurophysiology.

    When Scanning-tunneling microscope was invented in 1982, it was met by hostility and ridicule from the specialists in the microscopy field. In 1986, the inventors won the Nobel prize.

    George Ohm’s initial publication was met with ridicule and dismissal and it was called “a tissue of naked fantasy.” Ten years later, scientists recognized its great importance.

    “The wireless music box has no imaginable commercial value. Who would pay for a message sent to nobody in particular?” –David Sarnoff’s associates in response to his urgings for investment in the radio in the 1920s.

    “Who the hell wants to hear actors talk?” –H. M. Warner, Warner Brothers, 1927.

    “We don’t like their sound, and guitar music is on the way out.”
    –Decca Recording Co. rejecting the Beatles, 1962.

    “So we went to Atari and said, ‘Hey, we’ve got this amazing thing, even built with some of your parts, and what do you think about funding us? Or we’ll give it to you. We just want to do it. Pay our salary, we’ll come work for you.’ And they said, ‘No.’ So then we went to Hewlett-Packard, and they said, ‘Hey, we don’t need you. You haven’t got through college yet.’” –Apple Computer Inc. founder Steve Jobs on attempts to get Atari and H-P interested in his and Steve Wozniak’s personal computer.

    Stanford Ovshinsky’s invention of glasslike semiconductors was attacked by physicists and ignored for more than a decade. Finally he got funding from the Japanese for his work. Consequently, the new science of amorphous semiconductor physics was born.

    “Everything that can be invented has been invented.” –Charles H. Duell, Commissioner, U.S. Office of Patents, 1899.

    When Sherwood Rowland, Mario Molina and Paul Crutzen first warned that chemicals called cholorofluorocarbons or CFCs, were destroying the ozone layer they were ridiculed for their work. In 1995, Rowland, Molina and Crutzen, won a Nobel Prize.

    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends upon the unreasonable man.” –G. B. Shaw.

    In 1908 Billy Durant, in trying to raise money to create an automobile trust, boasted to J.P. Morgan & Co. “that the time would come when half a million automobiles a year will be running on the roads of this country.” This annoyed Morgan partner George W. Perkins who said “If that fellow has any sense, he’ll keep those observations to himself.” Unable to raise capital in Wall Street, Durant went home and put together something called General Motors.

    When Warren and his team introduced a new facet to MRI theory, his colleagues at Princeton told him that his insane ideas were endangering his career. They held a mean-spirited bogus presentation mocking his work. After seven years, Warren was vindicated. His discoveries are leading to the development of new MRI techniques.

    During 1903 to 1908, Wrights’ claims about their airplane invention were not believed. Most American scientists discredited the Wrights and proclaimed that their mechanism was a hoax.

    The inventors of the turbine ship engine, the electric ships telegraph, and the steel ship hull were initially met with disbelief and derision for their work.

    When Thomas Edison became successful with a light bulb filament he invited members of the scientific community to observe his demonstration. Although many from the general public went to witness the lamp, the noted scientists refused to attend. Sir William Siemens, England’s most distinguished engineer said “Such startling announcements as these should be deprecated as being unworthy of science and mischievous to its true progress.” Professor Du Moncel said “The Sorcerer of Menlo Park appears not to be acquainted with the subtleties of the electrical sciences. Mr. Edison takes us backwards.”

    “Louis Pasteur’s theory of germs is ridiculous fiction.” –Pierre Pachet, Professor of Physiology, 1872.

    “Airplanes are interesting toys, but of no military value.” — Marechal Ferdinand Foch, Professor of Strategy, Ecole Superieure de Guerre.

    Famous quotations on innovation

    “If at first, the idea is not absurd, there is no hope for it.” — Albert Einstein.

    “All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.”–Arthur Schopenhauer.

    “At their first appearance innovators have always been derided as fools and mad men.” — Aldous Huxley.

    “Every great advance in science has been issued from a new audacity of the imagination” –John Dewey.

    “That which seems the height of absurdity in one generation often becomes the height of wisdom in the next” –John Stuart Mill.

    “Problems cannot be solved by thinking within the framework in which the problems were created” –Albert Einstein.

    “No great discovery was ever made without a bold guess”
    –Isaac Newton.

    “That so few now dare to be eccentric marks the chief danger of our time” –John Stuart Mill.

    “The study of history is a powerful antidote to contemporary arrogance. It is humbling to discover how many of our glib assumptions, which seem to us novel and plausible, have been tested before, not once but many times and in innumerable guises; and discovered to be, at great human cost, wholly false.”–Paul Johnson

    “Concepts which have proved useful for ordering things easily assume so great an authority over us, that we forget their terrestrial origin and accept them as unalterable facts. They then become labeled as “conceptual necessities”, etc. The road of scientific progress is frequently blocked for long periods by such errors.” –Albert Einstein

    “All great truths began as blasphemies.” –George Bernard Shaw

  102. Paul said

    David Johnson, there are several things wrong with Josephson’s comment: the first part amounts to nothing more than the empty observation that liquid crystal structure is not the same as water structure; it fails to explain how ultramolecular dilution could achieve a persistent structural alteration selectively in favour of the ‘remedy’ molecules over contaminant molecules; it fails to explain how such persistence could be maintained at all http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v434/n7030/abs/nature03383.html … But most seriously of all, the statement “There have not, to the best of my knowledge, been any refutations of homeopathy that remain valid after this particular point is taken into account.’” implies that he believes refutations of homeopathy to be dependent on refutations of theories of the structure of water. That is absurd.

    “Why is there no rational talk here?”

    RJ, there is – but only an extremely limited amount of “rational talk” can be expected in any discussion in which some of the participants are the deluded disciples of a doubly absurd and ugly medical fantasy from antiquity, now ‘studied’ only by cranks and pseudoscientists.

    “While it has been attributed to quantum physics, homeopathy is not that well understood. It is not easily explained.”

    IME, there are two kinds of things commonly attributed to quantum mechanics: real quantum phenomena and illusory magical phenomena. Homeopathy is clearly in the latter category – there is nothing to be explained.

    “Can you explain gravity?”

    I am somewhat familiar with a beautiful explanation of gravity called General Relativity, yes. I am also acutely aware that it is an explanation of something which demonstrably actually exists.

    Karen, +40 crackpot points http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/crackpot.html for that enormous and spammish “Galileo Gambit” http://oracknows.blogspot.com/2005/03/galileo-gambit.html Interesting that the dodgy and litigiously inclined SJI outfit seems to be trying to use it for a slightly different purpose.

  103. John D said

    To anyone who knows that homeopathy work, these people sound like idiots. It just shows how easily science can be used to support lies. I started having massive allergic reactions after a tetanus shot. Got blue lighted to hospital several times. Had to carry an epipen filled with adrenaline with me at all times in case I had a reaction to something. I even had allergic reactions to plain paper.

    It took 18 months. three painful epidurals, countless scans and tests for the doctors to diagnose it Rheumatoid Arthritis and tell me there wasn’t much they could do! A homeopath gave me treatment for an adverse reaction to tetanus vaccine and I have had no – that is zero – symptoms these last 3 years. She literally saved my life.

  104. The “CHEST” article is readily available, as has been noted, and yet, we are all still waiting for someone’s (anyone’s) analysis of its statistics (feel free to reduce the 3 best-responders and see what you get).

    As for HCN’s assertion about evidence about cured cases, he (again) is showing how deaf, dumb, and blind he is. Above, I made reference to cases of malignant cancer in ONCOLOGY REPORTS (2008). I guess HCN considers this disease self-limiting.

    Constantine Hering, MD, is the “father of American homeopathy,” and he initially was a skeptic. I predict that today’s skeptics will be tomorrow’s advocates.

  105. Me and my family were successfully treated by homeopathy on numerous occasions. This is my personal statistics and it works perfectly for me

    Think of any treatment mode that you think is ineffective – maybe faith healing, reiki, crystal stuff, acupuncture, aromatherapy, antibiotics, whatever, there must be something. One can easily find examples of people that say exactly the same thing – that it works for them and their family, and that proves it.

    Presumably you respond by saying “a single anecdote doesn’t prove anything”. Well, exactly.

  106. HB said

    Keep up the excellent work, Jeremy Sherr. The homeopathic community is behind you!!!

  107. Boulderdash said

    Methinks thou dost protest to much. You make a false assumption that clinical trials are the only way to ensure the safety of those in the study. But clinical trials have not kept people from dying. The study noted below basically has highlighted this problem. In a hospital setting where patients are given the medically correct prescription in the correct dosage, over 100,000 people die annually. This excludes all deaths due to errors in prescriptions and dosages. Additionally it is estimated that over 2,000,000 people suffer serious adverse drug reactions. These are all drugs that have passed your golden standard of clinical trials—PROVEN TREATMENTS!!!

    I am not aware of any deaths in the entire history of homeopathy attributable to the homeopathic remedy, where the patient was given the proper remedy in the proper dosage.

    The JAMA study summary follows:

    Incidence of Adverse Drug Reactions in Hospitalized Patients

    A Meta-analysis of Prospective Studies

    Jason Lazarou, MSc; Bruce H. Pomeranz, MD, PhD; Paul N. Corey, PhD

    JAMA. 1998;279:1200-1205.

    Objective.— To estimate the incidence of serious and fatal adverse drug reactions (ADR) in hospital patients.

    Data Sources.— Four electronic databases were searched from 1966 to 1996.

    Study Selection.— Of 153, we selected 39 prospective studies from US hospitals.

    Data Extraction.— Data extracted independently by 2 investigators were analyzed by a random-effects model. To obtain the overall incidence of ADRs in hospitalized patients, we combined the incidence of ADRs occurring while in the hospital plus the incidence of ADRs causing admission to hospital. We excluded errors in drug administration, noncompliance, overdose, drug abuse, therapeutic failures, and possible ADRs. Serious ADRs were defined as those that required hospitalization, were permanently disabling, or resulted in death.

    Data Synthesis.— The overall incidence of serious ADRs was 6.7% (95% confidence interval [CI], 5.2%-8.2%) and of fatal ADRs was 0.32% (95% CI, 0.23%-0.41%) of hospitalized patients. We estimated that in 1994 overall 2216000 (1721000-2711000) hospitalized patients had serious ADRs and 106000 (76000-137000) had fatal ADRs, making these reactions between the fourth and sixth leading cause of death.

    Conclusions.— The incidence of serious and fatal ADRs in US hospitals was found to be extremely high. While our results must be viewed with circumspection because of heterogeneity among studies and small biases in the samples, these data nevertheless suggest that ADRs represent an important clinical issue.

    From the Departments of Zoology (Mr Lazarou and Dr Pomeranz), Physiology (Dr Pomeranz), and Public Health Sciences (Dr Corey), University of Toronto, Toronto, Ontario.

  108. John D, Dana Ullman, HB, Boulderdash, Karen and others: please could you address the actual complaint about Sherr’s behaviour – that he is conducting trials of unproven medications on Tanzanian AIDS patients without having obtained ethical approvals normally required to conduct drugs research? Let’s just assume for the sake of argument that homeopathy generally works and is a tremendously effective system of medicine etc. Even assuming all that, do you think it is okay to conduct trials on 3rd world patients without official approval and ethical review?

  109. To repeat Rob Hinkley’s direct question: do you think it is okay to conduct trials on third world patients without official approval and ethical review?

    Yes or no?

  110. Chris said

    Boulderdash said “I am not aware of any deaths in the entire history of homeopathy attributable to the homeopathic remedy, where the patient was given the proper remedy in the proper dosage.”

    Then let me tell you about little Gloria Thomas. She died from a bacterial infection arising from untreated eczema. Her father was the homeopath, who even decided to take her to India for more homeopathic treatment instead of going to the scheduled appointments of the Australian health service. There is no “proper remedy” excuse in this case.

    There is also Isabella Denley who died from a seizure due to her parents substituting homeopathy instead of real medication.

    Then there is Janeza Podgoršek who received took the homeopathic remedy prior to a trip where this malaria prescribed by a physician/homeopath. He got malaria, which the same person treated him with more homeopathy. He died. He was under the care of the homeopath before and after the trip, the “proper remedy” excuse does not work here either.

    There are more cases here: http://whatstheharm.net/homeopathy.html

    (granted not all the cases are strictly homeopathic, but it should correct you not hearing of homeopathy causing harm)

  111. simone said

    There are so many deaths due to bad prescription of conventional medication. In the U.S. alone this is the proven reason for a third of the deaths rate, this figure is openly accepted by all health authorities. This an other iatrogenic reasons for illness and death is similar in the whole of the western world.

    Chris, you bring 3 incidents detailed by names if you would do same for conventional medicine you would need endless megabites to list the names let alone tell a story of each ailments.

  112. Chris said

    Simone said “In the U.S. alone this is the proven reason for a third of the deaths rate, this figure is openly accepted by all health authorities.”

    Documentation please?

    But what is the ethics of substituting medication that has been tested to work on the majority of cases with homeopathy, which when tested more rigorously fails to work?

    Would you tell a diabetic to stop taking their insulin?

    Would you tell a person with a bacterial infection to not take antibiotics?

    Would you tell a person with epilepsy to stop taking their anticonvulsants?

    Would you tell a person to not take the prophylactic medication for malaria before a trip to Africa?

    Would you conduct a medical trial with informed consent?

    Do you have any evidence that homeopathy would have any effect on HIV? Do you think that Mr. Sherr acted in good faith with Muhumbili University?

  113. You skeptics do not seem to have a clue! Jeremy Sherr is a clinician, a practicing homeopath. He wants to be involved in research because his experience to date treating people with AIDS and other immune dysfunction has been significant, but he is not a trained researcher. He is looking for people with whom to collaborate to do research. His efforts to go to Africa to offer clinical services shows his philanthropic intentions. It is a tad ironic that so many skeptics sit in their personal ivory tower and in their couch-potato/video-game/chronic blogging life and love to complain about others who do not live a life just like themselves.

    To say that homeopathy doesn’t have “any” evidence of efficacy in the treatment of infectious disease is to be deaf, dumb, and blind to history and to controlled scientific trials.

    I personally think that it is unethical to try to thwart safe and potentially effective health care to under-served people in Africa.

    Does THAT answer your question?

  114. Yuri Perel said

    Maybe I am unaware of well-known facts, but I can’t see physicians lining up to depart to Tanzania to treat local AIDS patients using “approved” methods. Given the lack of choices for the people suffering from AIDS in Africa, I think it’s not ethical to criticize Jeremy Sherr for people who are not in Africa now fighting AIDS. His patients have nothing to loose – it’s as simple as that. Even opponents of homeopathy admit that sugar pills didn’t kill anyone yet. And there’s hardly an option of any other treatment around.

    I don’t think Jeremy Sherr is making lots of money doing what he is doing now. I think he exposes himself to a variety of risks and harms which people living comfortably in civilized world can’t imagine. To gain a moral right to question Jeremy Sherr’s ethics you should go to Tanzania and work there for bad food and poor accommodations. Talks about ethics from the comfort of you home sound hollow.

  115. michael said

    About 20 years ago, a conventionally trained pathologist told me about homeopathy as I had never heard of it. His remarks regarding homeopathy were, “In his entire medical training he was taught that there was no way homeopathy could work.” “Everything he knows about science says it can’t or shouldn’t work.”……. Then he said, “But it works!” At that point he told me about the remarkable improvement in his young son’s health, who went from being chronically ill to completely well after being treated by a skilled, experienced homeopath similar to the caliber of Jeremy Sheer.

    At that time, my son was suffering from an idiopathic neurological illness which was being treated unsuccessfully with potentially toxic neuroleptic drugs. He was really a guinea pig going from one drug to the next.

    In the months’ long waiting period it took to get an appointment with the same homeopath the pathologist had seen, I read everything I could get my hands on regarding homeopathy. I’m a concrete and linear thinker, and what I read, made a lot of sense to me. Long story made short. My son responded to homeopathy exactly as I had read in homeopathic books….and it was visible.

    Like the pathologist, I can not explain how homeopathy works, but it was the methodology that initially appealed to me. It is a healing art and a science that continues to benefit mankind. I hope Jeremy Sheer applies all his wisdom to those patients in his care and can make their lives better. What a challenge!

    Thanks to all those who try to make a difference.

  116. Prithwish Ghosh said

    Three cheers for Jeremy Sherr for taking such a noble project. I wish you all success and hopefully one day your uneducated critics will realize how deep is your love for AID sufferers. It seems to me your critics are either absolutely ignorant or vested interested people who are afraid of your success.
    I’m a sufferer of hay fever for several years, each year intensity and recurrence of suffering was increasing,initially I used get relief with antihistamine tablets but at the end of fifth year prednisone, sulbutamol puff, flownase could not help me much. Fortunately I got treated by a qualified homeopath for four years now for last two years I’m a free bird, don’t need to keep watching pollen concentration in the air. My daughter doesn’t need to go to emergency any more to get help to breath, homeopathy cured her asthma as well as eczema. My twelve years old dog living a healthy life without going to a so called vet for last five years.

    HOMEOPATHY should be primary mode of treatment.

  117. jaycueaitch said

    Amazing how homeopaths refuse to address the substance of Gimpy’s complaint. Furthermore, if Sherr is so sure of himself, why has he deleted the posts from his blog where he claims homeopathy will cure AIDS?

  118. Dana: Still waiting for a response re: the memory of sugar and the glass of water problem.

    Everyone else: Even if we were each the Devil himself in the pay of every pharma company on earth, it wouldn’t make the blindest bit of difference to Mr Sherr. So please shut up about us, and talk about him.

  119. Dana

    Not even close.

  120. Ellen Madono said

    Hi,
    You are accusing a man who risks his own safety to help people who are receiving little help at all. He is not advising patients to stop drugs that they can not buy. Are you raising funds for their drugs? Do your criticisms express any concern for their welfare? Jeremy Sherr spends his own time and money to provide one of the safest and most effective forms of health care. There are few homeopaths today with Jeremy Sherr’s breathe of experience. When there is no known cure for AIDS, who would make that claim that homoepathy could cure AIDS? Certainly homeopathy can extend the lives of AIDS suffers and alleviate some of their suffering. If treatment is individualized, as it is in homeopathy, Allopathic medical testing is difficult. The idea of Allopathic medicine is based on mass production not on individualization. So the standards of testing differ. But there are plenty of lab studies of homeopathy. Ask Dana Ullman (see his comments above). He has written books on the subject. AIDS drugs were tested on the homosexual community long before they were approved or fully tested. I don’t think that is right because those drugs can do real harm and they did. The FDA gave approval for use of AIDS drugs before they were fully tested by Allopathic standards because of the great need. They also were using the population for human testing. Homeopathy just does not work if the wrong remedy is selected. It does not do harm. But we can learn more about homeopathy and AIDS for work like Jeremy Sherr’s. The cost of the treatment is nothing compared to the cost of AIDS drugs. Since these people are not receiving the drugs that you so deeply believe in, why is it unethical to use a remedy that does not work (and that does happen) if it is not appropriate? Doctors use the wrong drug often and because the drugs are very strong, they harm the patient often. In homeopathy we simply use the information provided by the failure of a remedy to chose a more appropriate remedy. It is a labor intensive task of love and devotion. What a waste of time to criticize constructive efforts when you have nothing to provide.
    Best,
    Ellen

  121. Ellen Madono: “When there is no known cure for AIDS, who would make that claim that homoepathy could cure AIDS?”

    Jeremy Sherr would, specifically on the 26th November last year in the first post on his ‘Jeremy’s Journal’ blog (which he has since deleted, but it is saved here): “I have decided that the main aim is to get out there and cure as many people as possible. I know, as all homeopaths do, that you can just about cure AIDS in many cases. But shhhh… I’m not allowed to say that, so you didn’t hear it.”

  122. Paul said

    The fact (if it is a fact) that someone “risks there own safety”, or endures “bad food and poor accommodations” while engaged in malpractice in medical science is utterly irrelevant. Also irrelevant is what charitable work Sherr’s critics have or have not themselves done. It doesn’t matter how well-meaning Sherr is: he appears to be behaving unethically, has been found out, and has tried to cover it up.

    Clearly there is no remedy for the appalling ignorance and stupidity behind the absurd belief in homeopathy here, but surely there is no need to be so fanatical about homeopathy that you also automatically condone and make spurious excuses for unethical behaviour so long as it’s one of your own who may be guilty of it?

  123. What a laugher! Rob finally brings out the “offending” quote from Jeremy Sherr where he says that “you can just about cure AIDS in many cases. But shhhh… I’m not allowed to say that, so you didn’t hear it.” Big f***ing deal! He speaks from his and select other experiences of homeopaths. And despite what the skeptics above has asserted, Jeremy does not directly assert that he “cures” AIDS (please re-read that quote). As for removing it, Jeremy probably didn’t want any potentially offending statement to reduce his ability to provide his philanthropic services. It is like when I cut my hippy long hair (a couple decades ago). It wasn’t that I didn’t like my long hair or that I was embarrassed by it. I simply did not want THAT to be an issue with anyone.

    As for research, I still do not understand why no one on this list insists that surgery be outlawed because there are no “randomized double-blind and placebo controlled” research. Surgery is unproven. Based on the logic of the people at this site, surgery should be outlawed and should be deemed to be unethical. Further, only since the 1980s or so did we understand how aspirin worked. I do not remember a single doctor previously asserting that aspirin should be outlawed or have its use be deemed unethical just because we didn’t adequately understand its mechanism of action.

    You skeptics are being shown for who you are: cold, heartless people who love to attack others who have different strategies for getting sick people than you do (big deal).

    Oh…and I’m still waiting for response to the statistics about the COPD trial. The silence here is very loud!

  124. gimpy said

    Dana, with respect, didn’t you cut your hippy long hair because you were receding – current evidence would suggest this?

    But let us not get distracted by your bluster, my latest post highlighted the ethical guidelines for medical research generally and AIDS specifically. It is clear that Sherr does not obey these, not least in the requirement for ethics committee scrutiny, something which every evidence based medical experiment on humans will have. Sherr has contempt for research ethics and this reflects badly on him and on his profession.

  125. jaycueaitch said

    Dana Ullman: In another of his deleted posts (saved by Robert Hinkley, see link above), Sherr claims one of his patients has become HIV negative. He then goes on to say “AIDS can be cured and will be”.

    And again, if he is so sure of himself, why the attempts to destroy the evidence?

  126. Yuri Perel said

    Gimpy tries to apply correct ethical guidelines applicable to well planned and funded research conducted in developed world with a luxury of choice between different methods.

    Some situations go beyond normal. Would you blame a field surgeon who knows that he has time and resources to save two wounded out of ten for playing God? Or would you rather prefer him washing his hands off and letting all ten die?

    Along the same guidelines would you blame Dr.Albert Schweitzer for his activities in Africa? Jeremy Sherr is trying to save people, who are denied other help. Research is a byproduct of his activity, and it’s something that can benefit the humanity greately if he is successful. I don’t see any ethical problems here, as his motives are obvious to me. It would be unethical to prevent him from trying.

    In light of Gimpy’s personal attack on Dana Ullman: It seems that Gimpy is a worker of word rather than medical professional. In this capacity he “has contempt for [journalism] ethics and this reflects badly on him and on his profession”.

  127. gimpy said

    Yuri Perel, the research standards are global, in fact ethical scrutiny has to be especially careful when considereing experiments in the developing world due to largely lower educational measures. Nor is it appropriate to compare Sherr with field surgeons, as Sherr has fully pre-meditated his actions whereas a field surgeon is functioning reactively. I think I will gloss over your mention of Schweitzer, it only harms your arguments further.

    I think you have a fundamental problem in your approach to this situation, your argument of ‘I don’t see any ethical problems here’ is an argument from personal belief – I don’t see a problem therefore there isn’t one. This is fallacious. Besides,I have posted the ethical guidelines I believe Sherr is in breach of, they exist even if you don’t know about them.

  128. In another of his deleted posts, Sherr claims one of his patients has become HIV negative. He then goes on to say “AIDS can be cured and will be”

    Specifically, on the 5th December (also in Google’s cache): “Encouragingly, one of Margot’s old AIDS cases has become HIV negative and has remained so for 2 years now. There is no trace of antibodies in her blood, she is clean. AIDS can be cured, and it will.”

    And again on the 10th December (also in Google’s cache): “I have already treated over 40 cases here with very promising results. One of our former AIDS patients is now HIV negative.”

  129. Nash said

    Hey Dana

    Did you know that 33 American Presidents haven’t used used, sponsered or passed legislation supporting Homeopathy.

  130. “Are you raising funds for their drugs?”

    Yes I am actually, every week I put in a few hours volunteer work with Oxfam, who I assume pay for ARVs amongst many any things, and I’m also going to be raising an extra £1500 for Oxfam this year, at least.

    I’m better than you and smarter.

  131. Boulderdash said

    Chris said:

    There are more cases here: http://whatstheharm.net/homeopathy.html

    (granted not all the cases are strictly homeopathic, but it should correct you not hearing of homeopathy causing harm)

    I have perused the site you recommended and do not see any instance where the harm was caused by the homeopathic remedy. In fact, in none of the “anecdotes” provided, one cannot say, for certain, that homeopathy, or a homeopathic remedy was the cause of death or harm. It seems that anything that is not conventional medicine can be called homeopathy, even non-treatment.

    Let me again attempt to make my point as clearly as possible.

    1. I am questioning the validity of what is called “science” in the process of bringing drugs to market.

    2. Several defenders of the process claim homeopathy and homeopathic remedies are not proven, therefore cannot be used to “experiment” on people.

    3. I claim that the process by which conventional drugs are “proven” is severely flawed. The proof is in the pudding, one might say.

    4. The “proven” drugs are directly responsible for the death of over 100,000 people. That is, 100,000 people died in the United States alone. That is, 100,000 people died in one year alone. That is, 100,000 people have died when they were given the correct drug in the correct dosage, verifiably. Think of the significance of this fact.

    5. Since the article was published in JAMA, it carries significant scientific weight.

    6. Since the article was published in 1998, 10 years and over 1,000,000 people have died.

    7. Over 1,000,000 (ONE MILLION) people have died due to adverse drug reaction of proven drugs. These drugs were proven by an obviously flawed process that you seem to have no problem with. This is the same flawed process you wish to bestow on every other therapy. Haven’t we had enough death?

    8. Every day that you that you chop away at homeopathy, another 274 people die due to adverse drug reactions when the drugs are verifiably dispensed according to medical and pharmaceutical protocol in a hospital setting. They are dying as a result of a flawed process that you assume to be the “end all” of all processes. Haven’t we had enough death.

    9. The number of people who have died does not include people who have died outside a hospital setting,while taking their prescriptions according to protocol.

    10. The number of people who have died does not include people who have died when an error is made in the drug prescription or dosage.

    11. The number of people who have died does not include people who have died outside the United States.

    12. The number of people who have died does not include people who have died due to other therapies.

    13. The number of people who have died does not include people who have died due to misuse of other therapies.

    14. Since this information has become clear and public, the conventional medical industry has not taken any steps to fix the problem.

    15. In order to compare apples to apples, one would have to determine, I repeat, whether anyone has ever died as a direct result of being given the correct remedy in the correct dosage according to homeopathic protocol.

    16. Until someone can find a case where the correct remedy and dosage was administered according to homeopathic protocol has directly resulted in a death, we will have to assume the number of deaths is zero, zilch, nada, nil.

    17. For the time being, it looks like the score is:
    Conventional Drugs 100,000 verifiable deaths per year
    Homeopathic Drugs 0 verifiable deaths per year

  132. simone said

    how about that :

    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=94019645

    and that:

    http://www.physorg.com/news73996014.html

  133. Chris said

    Simone, neither of those are peer reviewed journal articles, and they have nothing to do with the effectiveness of homeopathy. Do try a better tactic than “Poisoning the Well”.

  134. If you’re going to poison the well at least do it properly, I mean jesus:

    “One reason researchers found is that in 2003 patients tended to be sicker when they started treatment compared to those in 1995…
    Nonetheless, the WebMD report said the new HAART regimens do far better in viral control with far fewer serious side effects than in the past.”

  135. Niki said

    What a shame that so much time and energy is wasted in all this slander. There is evidence that homeopathy works, Jeremy Sherr is not acting unethically, this is just witch-hunting. Why are you all so scared of people having another option when the health system fails them? Get over yourselves.
    Niki

  136. Chris said

    Niki said “There is evidence that homeopathy works,”

    So far when better when better tests are done, homeopathy keeps failing. You’ll notice that one proponent of homeopathy (Jacobs J, goes to Central America and tries to treat people with homeopathy) had earlier papers saying “It works!”. As it turns out, she had some interesting changes in her more recent papers. Somehow she is using more rigorous science and now her papers end with “The evidence shows homeopathy did show measurable effect”.

    Next Niki said “Jeremy Sherr is not acting unethically,”

    Are you denying that he changed his website or that he was being honest when he said “We have the support of several eminent homeopathic researchers, as well as the Muhumbili University of Health Sciences”, especially when that university wrote back denying any relationship?

    Niki continued with “Get over yourselves.”

    Only after you prove to have sufficient reading comprehension to understand what Gimpy wrote above.

  137. Rochelle said

    Do you skeptics really think I would still be running a successful homeopathic practice after 10 years if it didn’t work? 95% of my patients are from recommendation.

  138. Chris said

    Yes, you are essentially run a place where a customer can come in and have a nice chat. You would accomplish the same thing by being a counselor, or just a friend with a sympathetic ear who serves very diluted tea and charges by the hour.

    But that does not address the fact that Jeremy Sherr lied.

    (Niki, you are repeating yourself… or you are all a bunch of spam-bots)

  139. jaycueaitch said

    Boulderdash, are you being deliberately obtuse? If somebody takes magic water or sugar pills instead of medicine that actually works and dies as a consequence, then homeopathy has killed them. I grant you that it is the homeopath him/herself who has killed through gross negligence rather than the nostrum which of course has no effect at all (unless the mark patient is lactose intolerant).

  140. Rochelle said

    You can’t tell babies and very young children that they have had a nice chat :-)

  141. Cybergibbons said

    You can’t tell a homeopath to address the central issue here :) It’s practically like speaking to babies and very young children.

    The trial that Jeremy Sherr wishes to embark upon is unethical. Why has he deleted so much of his blog?

  142. Nash said

    Cybergibbons

    I agree with you. Hoes and other Alties confuse good intentions with ethical behaviour. As I have posted before on this blog and others, the Hoe course offered by Salford Uni has Ethics as an optional module, which essentially to me sums up their approach to everything.

    This is a summary of the current ethical guidelines for doctors http://www.gmc-uk.org/guidance/good_medical_practice/GMC_GMP_V41.pdf. If Hoes want to be taken seriously then they should take ethical considerations into account in all that they do, not just in this specific instance.

  143. Chris said

    Rochelle said “You can’t tell babies and very young children that they have had a nice chat”

    It is still confirmation bias when you are dealing with the parents. You comfort the caregiver when the child has a bad spell with a viral infection or teething, and then it seems everyone gets better.

    If you tried treating the child when he or she is actually ill with undiagnosed diabetes, epilepsy or a bacterial infection, then your wee talks with very diluted remedies will not quite work. There are several examples of that on the “WhatsTheHarm” website (also the “proper remedy” does not work when the homeopath father of Gloria Thomas dragged her from their home in Australia to India for more “proper homeopathy”).

    Still, you all seem to ignore that Sherr has changed his blog, lied about affiliations and other transgressions. This shows a pattern of misrepresentation, and it seems to be a common trait among all the homeopaths who have posted their whimpy “Oh, I have seen it work… you are all a bunch of poopy heads for being so mean!”

  144. Boulderdash said

    jaycueaitch said
    January 28, 2009 at 8:26 am

    Boulderdash, are you being deliberately obtuse?

    I am just questioning the method that is being imposed on Mr. Sherr. Since my last post, another 300 people have died as a direct result of following the “scientific,” “ethical,” process the host of this blog is seeking to impose on all other therapies.

    It seems that a rational thing to do, at this point, is to find out what the flaw in the process is. There is a biblical reference to this very situation, something about being overly concerned about a sliver when you can’t see the log in your own eye.

    Don’t you all think that we should really figure out why 100,000 people are dying every year in the United States alone? You refer to homeopathy and other therapies as “bad science.” But “good science” is killing 100,000 people every year.

    Every 5 minutes another patient dies as a direct result of your “good science.”

  145. jody said

    Maybe its time that everyone put their ego’s aside and start to work together for the good of all humanity. I read all these blogs and they are riddled with fear everyone slinging mud at eachother. Sure not every patient will find a cure or even a better quality of the life they have left with either Western “traditional” aproches or with alternative approches., yet we could work together for positive change. Perhaps it would be more constructive to actually get out there and work together finding a cure than to waste your time sitting in front of the computer throwing stones and spreading fear.

  146. Lotus Lady said

    My dogs responded amazingly well to homeopathic remedies as did pets belonging to friends of mine. Seizures have disappeared (not usually a self-limiting condition), chronic vomiting, chronic diarrhea, hip dysplasia, chronic vertigo, a leaky bladder, etc. As far as I know, animals don’t display a placebo effect.

    In addressing the “ethical” issue of Jeremy Sherr helping those with AIDS who seek out his care (remember, we do still have a choice of what type of medication to take), I think it is unethical of the drug companies to not provide the drugs free of charge when they easily could. What is THEIR plan for AIDS in Africa, or don’t we know that because they can’t figure out how to do it and make Billions of dollars.

  147. Paul said

    “I am just questioning the method that is being imposed on Mr. Sherr.”

    Yes, Boulderdash, and it is an egregious example of special pleading: a spurious attempt to construct an excuse for Sherr’s unethical behaviour on the irrelevant grounds that genuine medicines and medical practices entail iatrogenic effects. Even in that you fail miserably – you erroneously and absurdly compare homeopathic harm with medical harm instead of comparing homeopathic benefit minus harm with medical benefit minus harm, and you falsely assert that “we” are not doing anything to improve the (tautologically) imperfect but infinitely superior record of science based medicine when that is, effectively, the whole purpose of medical science.

  148. Nash said

    Lotus Lady

    Don’t confuse good intentions with ethical behaviour. If Sherr was acting ethically then he would be following the guidelines outlined in the Declaration of Helsinki, Ethical Principles for Medical Research Involving Human Subjects.
    Gimpy has already posted the link in another post, but I will repeat it here for you. http://ohsr.od.nih.gov/guidelines/helsinki.html I suggest you actually read these

    Just thinking he is following a noble cause does not exempt him. Also there is the Society of Homeopaths guidelines here. http://www.homeopathy-soh.org/about-homeopathy/documents/CodeofEthicsApr04.pdf Are any of you aware of these? There are quite a few guidelines he is breaking there as well.

    As to drug companies providing free drugs, then I suggest you aqquint yourself with the Treatment Action Campagian http://www.tac.org.za/community/

    As to treating animals homeopathically, currently there is a strong movement in the BVA for vets who prescribe homeopathic treatments to be struck off as they consider such treatment to be non-treatment and un-ethical.

  149. Rob said

    I am disappointed to see such mud-slinging on this site. Those who oppose Mr. Sherr’s use of homeopathy to help aids victims in Africa – what is Big Pharma’s solution. What is your solution, besides attacking? Any treatment that shows promise needs to be seriously considered and I would think the medical/healthcare community would unite solve the problem. Who cares whether it is labeled as traditional or complimantary or alternative? What is the definition of “good science?”
    Years ago when so-called “good science” traditional medicine could not help my son w/chronic ailments, I tried other options. Bottom line: Homeopathy worked then, it works now, it is cost effective and safe. Try less ego fulfilling mudslinging and join forces for a more integrative approach.

  150. HCN said

    Rob said “Those who oppose Mr. Sherr’s use of homeopathy to help aids victims in Africa – what is Big Pharma’s solution.”

    Yet more evidence of “reading comprehension” failure.

  151. Lotus Lady said

    Hey Nash,

    If the drug companies are helping the Tanzanians with their drugs and doing such a bang up job, there should not be a single person coming to see Jeremy. But apparently what they are doing isn’t reaching all nor is it working. People are suffering. Why would you ever want someone to NOT try to help the best they can.

    I also noticed you had no comment about helping pets with homeopathy. Perhaps it works on them and not humans???

    You get on your high horse and act so smart (you’ll never be as smart as Dana Ullmann) and puff yourselves up and pretend like you are trying to protect and help so many people. If people want your help, they’ll ask for it. No need to try to make yourself look good by bringing down the good work of other people. In Buddhism, we call that one of the lower 4 worlds and your base life condition is definitely in the worlds of animality and anger.

    If western medicine practitioners and their afficianados were so ethical as you seem to think they are, they wouldn’t be mud slinging (TIP: you appear REALLY desperate when you do that) they’d still be practicing homeopathy, as they used to do. FIRST DO NO HARM!!! Which, by the way, was followed up by this guy you might have heard of called Hippocrates with a line that says, “And let like cure like.” Seems to me that is homeopathy.

    Finally, and this is the last time I will write on this blog, he never said he was doing research. YOU WERE. So perhaps you are the unethical ones afterall.

    Cheers!

  152. [...] excellent blog cannot help but notice that there has been a surge of comments – particularly this post and to a lesser extent this one. The reason is not hard to find. As I have previously noted, Jeremy [...]

  153. Cybergibbons said

    We’ll address those points quickly:
    no comment about helping pets with homeopathy.
    It’s irrelevant to the argument, which is probably why no one addressed it.

    You get on your high horse and act so smart (you’ll never be as smart as Dana Ullmann) and puff yourselves up and pretend like you are trying to protect and help so many people.

    Not only am I concerned that Jeremy Sherr is abusing the trust of people in Tanzania, on a much more selfish level, my taxes are being wasted on homeopathy when they could be used for something else. Dana Ullmann posts the same irrelevant rubbish again and again and cannot actually enter into debate.

    If people want your help, they’ll ask for it.

    We’re not helping, are we? Sherr invited comment by posting on his blog. Keep it to yourself in future.

    In Buddhism, we call that one of the lower 4 worlds and your base life condition is definitely in the worlds of animality and anger.

    I really couldn’t care what your religion says. An ad hominem argument using a belief system is pretty low.

    If western medicine practitioners and their afficianados were so ethical as you seem to think they are

    This is not about who is better than one another. It is about Sherr not conducting an unethical trial and lying.

    Hippocrates with a line that says, “And let like cure like.”

    That old chestnut. He also said that opposites could cure. He also wasn’t talking about homeopathy, or you could extend the “but it’s been about for 200 years” argument ten-fold.

    Just because the Hippocratic Oath is part of modern medicine doesn’t mean that every word that Hippocrates said is true.

    Finally, and this is the last time I will write on this blog, he never said he was doing research. YOU WERE. So perhaps you are the unethical ones afterall.

    Should have addressed this first. You really don’t get the issue here, do you?

  154. Nash said

    Lotus Lady

    Hippocrates! So I suppose you believe in the four humours? Blood Letting? But opposites cure. He said so.

    As to animals. You obviously didn’t read all my post, I can only assume you have not you have not bothered to read the other links.

  155. Boulderdash said

    Paul said
    January 29, 2009 at 9:33 am

    Yes, Boulderdash, and it is an egregious example of special pleading: a spurious attempt to construct an excuse for Sherr’s unethical behaviour on the irrelevant grounds that genuine medicines and medical practices entail iatrogenic effects. Even in that you fail miserably – you erroneously and absurdly compare homeopathic harm with medical harm instead of comparing homeopathic benefit minus harm with medical benefit minus harm, and you falsely assert that “we” are not doing anything to improve the (tautologically) imperfect but infinitely superior record of science based medicine when that is, effectively, the whole purpose of medical science.

    I see you passed your 6 Weeks to Words of Power Course of Study. But I digress…

    You may call them iatrogenic effects, but I call them deaths. 100,000 deaths, deaths of real people, like you and me. 1,000,000 deaths since JAMA published that article.

    Calling those deaths, iatrogenic effects, is not the sign of a compassionate individual. Interesting that about 1,000,000 dead Iraqi civilians are better known as collateral damage. Maybe that’s the term you should use—collateral damage. In fact, if you truly can continue to show your total remorselessness for what you might call the iatrogenically effected, maybe you can gain employment with the military industrial complex.
    By the way, how many people must die before your conscience kicks in? How much collateral damage is too much? Certainly there is a point where there is enough?!?

    The figures I have presented do indeed form a basis for comparison. There has been an implicit and explicit assumption in this discussion that the method of treatment you prescribe is “scientific,” “ethical,” and therefore “good.” And that any other treatment method is “unscientific,” “unethical,” and “bad.” So the comparison was a look at what is the downside when each methodology is properly applied according to protocol. Since the study looked only in a hospital setting and only looked at reported adverse drug reactions it is a very lowball estimate of the deaths. It is estimated that “reporting” of events may be only 5% to 20% of the total events. So the authors of the study were very lenient as to the measurement of the total deaths.

    Going beyond this level would open up a can of worms for the conventional medical industry. The figures above only attempt to count the damage when your so-called ethical and scientific process is followed. The can of worms might include “iatrogenic effects” of medical errors, unnecessary surgeries, infections from hospitals and more. The death rate of these effects is not insignificant.

    Let’s not forget those who have suffered “serious” iatrogenic effects. The study cited above put that number at 2,200,000. This is a very large number of people. In the ten years since the study, about 22,000,000 serious iatrogenic effects have been experienced from adverse drug effects. Again, let me remind you that these 22,000,000 serious events have come from following protocol—that is, following all the proper “procedures, science and ethics.”

    Don’t get me wrong. Medical science does have place in society. If my brother-in-law had a motorcycle accident and needed some serious stitching and bone reconstruction, there is no better alternative.

    So where does this leave us? A few barbs have been thrown at Mr. Sherr. Many seem to be somewhat speculative, for we do not know what is going on in Tanzania. Have the ailing Tanzanians given informed consent? Who invited Mr. Sherr? Are they agents of the government? Or of the University? Do the ailing Tanzanians have any options? Did Mr. Sherr round up some prisoners and forcibly apply his wares? (By the way, scientists/doctors in the US have been known to do this. The US military has been know to do this. But apparently that is not a problem.)

    Mr. Sherr has reported positive results. Can anyone disclaim these results with any factual information. It seems that there is no interest in ascertaining the facts at this blog.
    Why not? What might you find out?

    I guess that’s all for today. Have a great weekend. By the way, another 5-600 people have died from adverse drug reactions, in US hospitals, since my last post.

  156. Paul said

    “Calling those deaths, iatrogenic effects, is not the sign of a compassionate individual…”

    Despicable, moronic worm.

  157. simone said

    A FEW TRIALS FOR YOUR REVIEW –

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  158. Chris said

    Simone just posted a Gish Gallop. I would speculate not one of them has anything to do with ethics or the real efficacy of homeopathy on people who are terminally ill with AIDS. (in fact most of them are on self-limiting conditions that are not fatal)

  159. jaycueaitch said

    Simone, how does all that relate to Sherr’s seemingly unethical behaviour?

    It would be really useful if homeopath’s were to address this rather than attempt to reframe the debate. Your avoidance of the question suggests that you are aware of the problem but are trying not to be.

    “There are none so blind as those who will not see.”

  160. simone said

    This unethical blabber is just a beaurorocratic effort to find a flaw in an honest noble project to aid humanity, to relieve even a few from this horrible survival with AIDS, with ARV or without it. We trust Jeremy to do good.

    Seemingly unethical you say, what does that mean exactly? You care for something, surely it is not for the benefit of the sick Jeremy is caring for. For if you did, you would seriously try to understand and investigate what promise homeopathy holds for the future of these people.

    Jeremy enjoys a great reputation, he had no reason to leave the comfort of his home and positions to be with some of the worst sufferings on earth. He would not endanger his name, to carry out unethical trials, he has no need for it, he is more than legitimate to his patients students and generation of homeopaths that he had taught well and still does and to the myriad of provings that he had carried out for the benefit of many patients throughout the world.

  161. Boulderdash said

    Paul said

    Despicable, moronic worm.

    Is that a compliment?

  162. jaycueaitch said

    Simone shows homeopathy’s true colours. Discussion of ethics is just bureaucratic blather according to her.

    An she trusts Jeremy to do good. That’s nice. If Big Pharma proposed an unethical trial and one of their shills said “We trust Big Pharma to do good” would you find that acceptable?

  163. Well, you’ve heard of Doctors without Borders (Médecins Sans Frontières)…now we’ve got, yes, you’ve guessed it:

    Homeopaths without Borders
    http://www.hom-og.de/index.php?id=233&L=1

    Just imagine, if you will, crack teams of homoeopaths, ready to parachute into any disease-ravaged area…ready to dispense their life-saving sugar pills to all and sundry.

    Don’t know whether to laugh or cry.

  164. simone said

    Just read what Michael wrote in comment #115. These are not the only scientists treated.

  165. [...] Jeremy Sherr does not act alone, but with the support of the homeopathic establishment [...]

  166. [...] on what Sherr is up to. Behold the chorus of disciples on, for instance, Gimpy’s threads here and [...]

  167. [...] couldn’t m… on Jeremy Sherr – blind to ethics…You couldn’t m… on Jeremy Sherr does not act alon…You couldn’t m… on Jeremy Sherr – a Rath in the…loopedstrangeness on The perils [...]

  168. simone said

    Is it ethical or not to treat Legionair’s disease with homeopathy?

    This is an ‘anecdote’ that encompases four generations that were treated by homeopathy, thanks to a dose of china 30C perscribed to a renowned professor of physics.
    He claimed to have contracted the disease coming back from some conference on a transatlantic flight.
    The guy did not believe in homeopathy, he coughed and barked away for some excruciating ten days. But he had to lecture/ So his wife who consulted with me. Since I knew the professor for some years, I thought it would be a good idea to give him a dose of China 30C.
    This was given to him in the evening. Next morning he was standing at the podium lecturing free of cough and so he remained all winter.

    Later he entrusted me to take care of his father who was 94. This old man a while after receiving the news of the death his first born of cancer, was taken to the hospital with a cardiac condition and remained in a semi coma for two days, he came back home, but unlike himself sat in the arm chair disheveled with his slippers, he was pleaded to sip his drink, did not care to eat. Did not wish to talk to anybody. He also had some rattling in his lung, I was a beginner in homeopathy, it took me a while to find a suitable remedy. the third of which was Opium 15C which had the whole picture of the situation. Not a minute passed since he took the remedy and the breathing became much lighter, he said to his caretaker, I want my tea now, of which he drank the whole cup with apiece of cake and fruit. a while later he said I want my egg now – he asked for his supper two hours before his usal time.
    The nurse came in to check his BP and he started talking to her, his family members called from abroad and he talked as usual.

    in two days he planned his 94th birthday invited the whole family over, phoning all his grandchildren and children. the next week he went by himself to the bank and resumed his photography, which he neglected for some months.
    This man was later treated for various ailments that he had for the last ten years.
    He expired after his 96th birthday at home when two days prior to his demise, he photographed his third great grandaughter who was one week old. He took the whole family to celebrate at lunch and took out his credit card to pay for it.

    I have treated the mother of this greatgrandaughter and two of the grandchildren, four generations in a period of about nine to ten years.

    One dose of China 30C was enough to convince the Professor of physics a world renowned scientist. He claimed that I saved his father’s life a few times, at times when the doctors recommended he sent to the emergency ward or die in amatter of hours. This professor nearly seventy years old is still working, travelling from congress to conference. taking a dose of China in rising potencies everytime his stomahch gives him trouble, his research has grown in funds over the last few years and his project became more renowned, he did not feel hindered ithe way he felt before he was treated.

  169. Dr.V.G.Rose said

    To attack A RESEARCH done by anyone is the mark of ignorant fools that for many centuries have given some of the barbaric practices of medicine their false power over weak minds…These creatures FEAR the results of research that does not support their financial interest making them not only ignorant but also EVIL!
    THE FOUNDER OF HOMEOPATHY WROTE: ”that could only be imagined by minds of a materialistic stamp, and has for thousands of years given to the prevailing system of medicine all those pernicious impulses that have made it a truly mischievous (non-healing) art.” Allopathic medicine has its power and glory and so does Homeopathy.
    The extremely IGNORANT INTELLECTUAL (to differ from intelligent) Will continue to argue his uneducated copied views from old and outdated books that as time goes by have become an old unsupported science. These people are the Rotting decay of our society and thanks to newer but modern technology we get rid of them as time goes by. To continue to argue with such creatures of outdated brains learned like monkeys only with Newtonian physics that was declared completely discovered in 1929 and to ignore new research of quantum physics is truly a waste of time..
    You little scientists of short lived fame are not worth more then a one time comment..
    Homeopathy has proved under chemical tests to be completely worthless…HOWEVER NEW DISCOVED QUANTOM PHISICS TESTS SHOW A VERY SEVERE SHIFT IN THE PHYSIC’S OF THE DILUTED WATERS INFECTED WITH THE HOMEOPATHIC REMEDY.
    To further bother with this ignorance is a waste of productive time.. Your ignorance is and will prove to be a short lived egotistical fame.

  170. Dr. Nancy Malik said

    Homeopathy is evidence based modern medicine for the 21st century

    • Nash said

      No it isn’t.

      Posting messages months after the thread has died, in an effort to look as if you’ve had the last word and won the day is pathetic.

  171. zeno said

    Nancy

    Have you completely forgotten the trial you proposed four months ago to test homeopathy?

    http://www.thinkhumanism.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2871

    Don’t you have the conviction or integrity to follow this through? Or don’t you believe in homeopathy?

    • ez said

      I have checked the link that you posted – can you present any hypothesis that you want to consider suggesting that the colour of the paper immersed in plain solution and a solution where Arnica remedy was dissolved should differ? Frankly, I see no point in this whatsoever, but I would like to hear your explanation, what’s the idea behind this?

      THanks!

      • Nash said

        Ask Nancy, it’s her idea.

      • Nash is right. It’s a test of what Nancy claimed she could do. It hardly proves that homeopathy actually does anything, of course, but it was something that could easily be tested.

        However, despite several reminders, she’s not come back to finish what she started.

        Methinks she doesn’t really believe in homeopathy either…

  172. Dr. Nancy Malik said

    Not every physician is a homeopath physician, and not every medicine is allopathic

  173. Zeno said

    Nancy

    Still not interested in following through on the claim you made about your homeopathy, then?

    http://www.thinkhumanism.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2871

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